Spokane7
46°
March 21, 2011 in City
Getting There: To STA, city, transit future looks electric
The public will get another look at a proposal to build an electric streetcar or trolley line through downtown Spokane.
An open house is planned on March 29 from 4:30 to 7 p.m. at Chase Gallery in the lower level of City Hall.
A Central City Transit Alternatives Analysis will be among a number of downtown-area projects at the event.
Through a consultant, the city and Spokane Transit Authority have identified a preferred route for the high-performance line to carry people between Browne’s Addition and the University District.
Currently, an estimated 142,000 daily trips occur along the corridor, and about 30 percent of traffic in the downtown area is made up of drivers looking for parking, STA officials said.
A trolley or streetcar running every 10 to 15 minutes would alleviate a lot of that traffic and create a new identity for downtown, said Susan Meyer, STA’s chief executive officer.
“The first and most important thing is connectivity downtown,” she said.
Meyer said she prefers an electric trolley running on overhead wires or a fixed guideway.
Such a system would bring a clean-energy emphasis to Spokane and provide a new facet of urban character, she said.
A high-performance line “seems to be a mark of a progressive community,” she said.
Input is being gathered from across the community to develop a preferred alternative.
STA officials acknowledge that they are making plans for an addition to public transportation at the same time its board is considering a second round of service cuts.
“We are planning for the future while we are living within our means,” Meyer said.
Any new project would most likely be funded with voter approval of an increase in sales tax and would not be built until 2014 or later.
Property owners who would benefit from traffic along the line would also be asked to contribute, probably through property taxes.
“A system like this brings people to the door of a business,” Meyer said.
Having a completed alternatives analysis puts the city in line for federal funding for new and small transit projects, she said.
Beginning at Browne’s Addition and moving east to Gonzaga University, the route would likely use Pacific Avenue; Sprague or First Avenue; Post or Wall Street near the STA Plaza; Main or Riverside Avenue; Spokane Falls Boulevard; and Hamilton or Cincinnati Avenue at GU.
A spur line to the medical campuses on the lower South Hill is possible if the community is willing to spend more money.
Three options are on the table: enhanced buses that look like trolleys at $3 million to $5 million per mile; electric trolleys on fixed lines at $6 million to $9 million per mile; and an electric streetcar on rails at $34 million to $51 million per mile.
At 5 p.m. during the March 29 open house, Mayor Mary Verner will lead a short presentation with facilitators from different projects, including pedestrian and bike improvements, a redevelopment study along East Sprague Avenue, a vision study by Spokane Regional Transportation Council, the Complete Streets Coalition, and Spokane UCommute.
In addition to the open house, STA and the city are sponsoring an appearance by John Inglish, the general manager of Utah Transit Authority in Salt Lake City, a leader in developing transit alternatives.
He will speak at 3 p.m. March 30 in Council Chambers on the lower level of Spokane City Hall. The event is open to the public.
I-90 work begins in Valley
Work on widening and rebuilding Interstate 90 from Sullivan to Barker roads begins March 28, and slowdowns are expected. Delays should not be severe since two lanes of traffic will be kept open in each direction.
The project will last into the fall.
When completed, the new concrete surface will have three lanes in each direction instead of two.
A press release from the state Department of Transportation said drivers need to stay alert because travel will be on narrower lanes with narrow shoulders. Speed limits will also be reduced.
Acme Concrete Paving Co., of Spokane, was the low bidder on the $14.9 million contract.
Hartson Avenue closure
Hartson Avenue between Havana and Myrtle streets will be closed starting today as water main construction resumes.
County taking multifaceted approach to reduce energy use 
mdriftmeyer on March 21 at 2:14 a.m.
Back to the Future works for me. Extend the trollies to the North and South Hills and ala San Francisco’s solution and you’ll see a consistent drop in automobile congestion on the main arterials. Hitting a trolley to go to a store and back was always a nice feature of living in San Fran. Taking the Caltrain wasn’t the best to work, but it beat the crap out of being in heavy traffic.
Spokane isn’t contracting in size. It’s expanding and will do nothing but expand in the near to long-term future that will need the Trolleys and Rails to expand our connectivity to Seattle, Tri-Cities, Portland, Boise, etc, and no I’m not speaking of Amtrack. The Inland Empire Hub is a crucial project as another piece of bring back Spokane as a key transportation hub for raw materials, visitors and local commuters.
polistra on March 21 at 5:09 a.m.
Probably a good idea, but unless STA can continue to serve the people who need it, there won’t be any future. When a city loses its public transit system, the political and capital costs of restarting are prohibitive.
STA needs to find some way to maintain current service before it worries about grandiose plans.
Ninch on March 21 at 7:27 a.m.
“Enhanced” buses looking like trollies? Why? A bus is a bus.
Overhead wires…UGLY.
Tracks OK, but ironically Spokane used to have trolleys on tracks long ago. There also used to be underground steam tunnels that served downtown buildings and also kept the snow melted… ergo no plowing needed.
pakman on March 21 at 7:29 a.m.
Mass transmit is only going to become more important and in a time when so many people seem willing to run for cover it’s good to see someone with vision and the courage to suggest enhancing public services. Obviously the cost-benefit studies will be important and I agree the STA needs to focus on providing its core service but this may be the sort of practical and appealing community enhancement that people will thank us for in the future.
gmorton on March 21 at 7:57 a.m.
“’We are planning for the future while we are living within our means,’ Meyer said.”
Well, no. You will be living within your means when you can finance your Utopian fantasy with farebox revenues, and not with sales taxes and federal pork (the feds have a $1.6 trillion deficit, remember?)
Let’s see … if the rail option costs $34-51 million per mile to build, and 10% of the 142K daily commuters use it (a typical use factor), and we set fares at $1, then it will take about 23 years just to pay off the construction bonds. Of course, that doesn’t figure in interest, equipment costs, or operating costs.
“A high-performance line seems to be a mark of a progressive community,” Meyers said.
Ah, yes. Let’s build a street car line so we can be perceived to be politically correct, and ignore the economic realities.
How silly.
gmorton on March 21 at 8:00 a.m.
Ninch wrote,
“Tracks OK, but ironically Spokane used to have trolleys on tracks long ago.”
Yes. They were privately built when there was an actual market for that mode of transportation. They were abandoned when that market disappeared, having been supplanted by the far faster, more convenient, more flexible and versatile, and more comfortable private automobile. That situation has not changed.
pakman on March 21 at 8:06 a.m.
What’s silly gmorton is your over-simplified, one dimensional view. There are benefits related to the construction, reduction in traffic and air pollution, congestion, impact on limited parking, public convenience, future economic development along the route and many other factors that need to be taken into consideration. Doing some quick math and dismissing the idea as an attempt to be “politically correct,” is the kind of empty argument that now passes for civil debate and careful consideration.
DickAdams on March 21 at 8:33 a.m.
pakman: Calling Morton silly is the reason there are more horses asses than horses. Taxpayers, as we speak, pay enough to supplement a cash cow, i. e. STA. Enough already.
de3 on March 21 at 8:51 a.m.
STA is in the midst of a 3 year program to cut their expenses and route structure by 18%. Let’s go build a light choo choo that mostly benefits a small number of landowners downtown.
pakman on March 21 at 9:20 a.m.
I’m not saying this is the answer, just that it’s an interesting idea and is worth discussion and consideration. That’s not nearly as fun as a knee jerk reaction but we can either do it now while private cars are still an option for most people or later when mass transit becomes more of a necessity.
Bruce (aka thatoneguy) on March 21 at 10:22 a.m.
On the one hand, the reason I mostly don’t shop downtown because parking is difficult & expensive. I could imagine parking in/near Browne’s Add. if there was a quicker/easier/cheaper way to get downtown.
On the other hand, I’ve noticed I can live a perfectly happy life without going downtown, so when it’s actually time to go out, I’d probably shop on the north side where there are free parking lots.
(I work downtown and would LOVE to be able to take the bus, which stops less than one block from my house… but it stops running at 6:30pm so I couldn’t get home again. Sigh.)
Ron_the_Cop on March 21 at 11:21 a.m.
Sorry folks I tend to side with GMorton and Dick Adams on this unless it can be shown it will pencil out. I don’t have anything against buses that look like trollies whose routes can change upon actual demand.
This looks like another pie in the sky project by Spokane’s powers that be that will directly benefit them at the expense of the taxpayers. A closer look needs to be given to just whom these trollies would benefit and I don’t mean the riders who we will subsidize.
Read this latest piece on Spokane economics re Downtown parking and my comment in the article thread:
Everything you wanted to know about Downtown Spokane Parking
http://inlandnw.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-downtown-spokane-parking/
DickAdams on March 21 at 12:22 p.m.
I remember how the STA crowd built the STA building at a cost of almost $28. million and about one year or so ago, the SR had a story showing the value at approximately $3. million. Then we have Sterling bank across the street complaining about the riders waiting for buses and want the powers that be to sell the building. Remember, Sterling wants more taxpayer stimulus money as I submit my comment. Recently, Sterling has bought TV advertising bragging they received the J. D. Powers award. How in the world can Sterling brag when their institution almost bankrupted the stock holders. BTW, the cost for a JDP award is $36,000.00. Seems like Powers has changed its good reputation for money. Sad. At one time the award meant something. Freggin GREED strikes again.
gmorton on March 21 at 12:59 p.m.
pakman wrote,
“What’s silly gmorton is your over-simplified, one dimensional view. There are benefits related to the construction, reduction in traffic and air pollution, congestion, impact on limited parking, public convenience, future economic development along the route and many other factors that need to be taken into consideration.”
Ah, that horrid “one-dimensional” economic view. Let’s ignore the actual, calculable, cost-benefit ratio and slip in some nebulous “psychic” benefits.
Sorry, pak, but the “construction” benefits are bogus. Money wasted on boondoggles would otherwise be spent on producing real goods for which there is an actual demand, such as building houses, businesses, industrial equipment, etc. Then you have the construction benefits and genuine goods to boot. That’s called the “broken window” fallacy (let’s break everyone’s windows – just think of all the jobs that will be created to fix them).
Air pollution “benefits” are bogus also. In the first place, the air quality in Spokane is just fine as it is – there is no need to spend a penny improving it. Nor would rail travel improve it measurably anyway, simply because so few people would use it.
“Public convenience”? Whose convenience, exactly? And at whose expense would they enjoy that convenience?
zelda on March 21 at 2:24 p.m.
I bet there’s a certain local utility company that’s all for this idea. A large part of Spokane’s economic-development agenda (such as it is these days) is driven by creating more-than-incremental demand for the use of electricity and natural gas. I’m not saying it’s wrong — it’s just business.
However, this is a huge infrastructure outlay. Seems to me that it would be more economical to convert or retrofit the buses to run on natural gas but that may not benefit the local utility as much as stringing wires and erecting buildings for the generators. There’s a continuous cost to creating a trolley-car grid because it’s “always on” to some degree, but gasoline or nat. gas usage can be increased or decreased based on demand — which is what STA is doing now.
Federal and state funds undoubtedly would come into play with trolley cars and the biggest beneficiaries would be Avista and the owners of the downtown core. I’m thinking the general public is kind of an afterthought in all this.
It scores point for nostalgia, though. Maybe they could re-use the old, brick electric-railroad building by Liberty Park.
Ron_the_Cop on March 21 at 2:42 p.m.
Right on Zelda! I would support natural gas trollies with rubber wheels whose routes can be changed based on demand and perhaps to subsidize those riders that would actually benefit.
Yes - Mr. Adams a transportation center in need of being built with public funds at the wrong location. It’s all about who owned the property where it was built! OK this will probably get this comment pulled but there is a dark skeleton in the past of the STA transit plaza, the arson/murder death of SFD Hanna in fighting the fire at the old Zukor Bldg (AKA Jamison Bldg former location of the Zukor clothing store). One of these days I will get back on this unsolved murder case.
zelda on March 21 at 3:17 p.m.
I’m still trying to puzzle out this STA proposal. So the logic goes that Spokane needs to bring people into downtown from Browne’s Addition. And also connect renters in Browne’s Addition to the University District.
This presumes that people in Browne’s Addition can afford to shop in the downtown retail core. Or that they’re enrolled in college at WSU-Spokane or will be. Or they’re employed at Macy’s or Nordstrom. (After all, most of the people who shop there don’t ride the bus.)
Now this makes me wonder who owns the majority of the rental property in Browne’s Addition.
Argh — how many downtown real-estate master plans can the taxpayers take?!
MrNatural on March 21 at 3:44 p.m.
At first I was tempted to inject the usual local cynicism…then I thought why insult attempts at innovation. It would be nice to have some effective, efficient and affordable form of mass transportation in this town.
The issues as always are the cost to benefit ratio, social return on investment, regional habits and attitudes, and the size of Spokane most of which I believe are affected by the limited size of Spokane. Where are the realistic projections (aside from a short presentation) that make this proposal viable aside from the standard utopian aspiration?
Ron_the_Cop on March 21 at 4:16 p.m.
Good points Mr. Natural,
Former Councilperson Cherie Rodgers has long warned about such a system in Downtown as being a boondoggle of the powers that be.
See my link re the story behind a surplus of parking in Downtown, the expansion of the areas served by the parking meters and the rate increases. Then consider who it is that would really benefit from such a trolley system and I’m not talking about the trolley riders. See my comment in the thread of this article.
Zelda’s right on again - this doesn’t make economic sense for us peons who don’t shop in Downtown anyway. If those wishing to gamble backed by the good faith and credit of the Spokane taxpayers to fund another public improvement project then if the dice comes up craps again, they should cover the losses. There are too many of these special deals when the dice comes up craps those that directly benefited have already slunk away from the table with the pot leaving the taxpayers holding an empty bag. In some corners this would be called a con game.
woamike on March 21 at 5:02 p.m.
I wish you do-gooders, greenies, utopianists, etc. would realize we are broke. That means we don’t have any money. It doesn’t matter if this is the greatest thing since sliced bread - we are BROKE and this thing will NEVER break even let alone make any money. All it will do is suck more tax dollars.
Get your heads out of the clouds, get real and stop thinking of more ways to make us go insolvent even faster than we already are.
force_vector on March 21 at 5:04 p.m.
This sounds like a huge waste of money to me. The size of the downtown area of Spokane simple doesn’t justify the cost of building a trolley. Furthermore, the topography of the downtown Spokane area is mostly flat. Why do I bring this up? Because in other, much larger cities like Seattle and San Fransisco, very steep topography can make traveling on-foot tiring and time consuming. The distance and the topography together create the need for very localized mass-transit. In addition, as these areas are tourist destinations, they are used extensively to get around by those who are bringing outside dollars into the area. I see no similar justifications for building such a system in Spokane. Spokane needs to worry about fixing the problems that exist, not creating solutions for those that don’t.
Ron_the_Cop on March 21 at 5:51 p.m.
How about this it would be much cheaper- buy everyone in Browne’s addition a bicycle. Besides why tear up the new bike lane on 2nd St that some our Council fought so hard for to be environmentally friendly were subsidizing only to to tear up to put in rails?
selkirks on March 21 at 11:42 p.m.
I propose a look at a more scalable, cheaper, and more innovative solution that will set Spokane apart. A unique system that will promote economic growth and efficiency without breaking the bank. Hardly.
The Spokane Urban Gondola.
http://spokanegondola.wordpress.com/
A modern Doppelmayr CTEC system could be manufactured and installed for under, by my estimation, $40 million from the Arena to the downtown corridor or less from Browne’s Addition to the downtown corridor. Extensions could reach to Riverpoint/GU or to the hospitals on the lower South Hill Think. For less than the cost of a single mile of the rail solution, we’d have a system that fits the size of Spokane better and would benefit the economy in the same ways.
Answers to FAQs and other questions are on the blog, but I’ve put a fair amount of research into this—and I truly believe it could effectively solve Spokane’s transportation problems in the downtown corridor. Think about it. If not a gondola, then certainly cable of some kind.
CougarGold on March 22 at 10:06 a.m.
Selkirks: At my first glance at your post, I started to laugh a bit. But then I read the rest of it and it kind of makes some sense. That could be an idea worthy of further discussion. Good to see someone going outside the boxes that normally traps community discourse. I’ll be interested in reading your blog on this.
reservedparking on March 22 at 1:00 p.m.
Easy fix: eliminate parking in the Downtown core, thus forcing more people to ride the bus.
Won’t ever happen, though, since the city needs every nickel of parking meter money & overtime ticket revenue it can get its hands on.
gmorton on March 22 at 5:06 p.m.
reservedparking wrote,
“Easy fix: eliminate parking in the Downtown core, thus forcing more people to ride the bus.”
Ah, yes. If people don’t seem enthusiastic about our Utopian fantasy (the stupid cows) and won’t sign on voluntarily, let’s force them. We know what’s best for them, even if they don’t.
Long live despotism!
Ron_the_Cop on March 23 at 10:09 a.m.
LOL Gmorton:-)
Folks swooning over all the happy news in this town should be reading the multi part series at:
Spokane Economic And Demographic Data
Raw and Uncensored – Economy, Jobs, Education, Government
http://inlandnw.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/recommendations-2-part-2-how-to-hide-the-decline/