Spokane7
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February 2, 2012 in City
Thompson kudos cited in court
Facebook post discredits officer’s avowed fear of felons, lawyer says
A Spokane police officer who says he feared for his life after being threatened by a felon was asked in court Wednesday about supportive comments he posted on a Facebook page in support of another convicted felon – former Officer Karl Thompson.
Defense lawyer Doug Phelps questioned Officer Chris McMurtrey’s contention that 38-year-old Rudy Ray Cordova’s prior convictions for violent crimes were a cause for concern, noting that Thompson has been convicted of a violent crime, too. Cordova is standing trial for threats he made to McMurtrey while McMurtrey was arresting him last year.
At Phelps’ request Wednesday, McMurtrey read a message he’d posted on the We Support Karl Thompson page on the popular social networking website.
In the message, McMurtrey wishes Thompson a happy Veterans Day and thanks him “for his service to this great country.”
“Too bad it can’t return the favor,” McMurtrey wrote. “You are inspiration to all of us. It was great to see you today.”
McMurtrey posted the message on Nov. 11 – nine days after Thompson was convicted of two federal felonies for lying to investigators and violating unarmed Spokane janitor Otto Zehm’s civil rights by using excessive force during a 2006 encounter at a convenience store. He said he and other SWAT team members chatted with Thompson when Thompson visited SWAT training that day. Thompson resigned from the police department Nov. 17 before a disciplinary hearing in which he was expected to be fired.
The public Facebook page for Thompson supporters recently was replaced by a private group in which only members can see the content.
When the jury was not present, Deputy Prosecutor Steve Garvin had objected to jurors being told of McMurtrey’s support for Thompson, but Phelps argued it was relevant to the credibility of the officer’s claim that he feared Cordova in part because of Cordova’s criminal convictions.
Judge Maryann Moreno agreed but prohibited Phelps from mentioning Zehm’s death or getting into other details of Thompson’s case.
“It is not relevant to this case,” she said.
In testimony, McMurtrey said he never claimed he “feared people who have been convicted of criminal convictions.”
McMurtrey had arrested Cordova on suspicion of domestic violence assault Feb. 26 when Cordova told him, “That’s how people died, by taking the wrong people to jail. … Don’t worry. I’ll get out tomorrow and find out where you guys live. I’ve been to prison,” Garvin said in court.
McMurtrey wrote in his report that he knew Cordova was an armed criminal with an officer warning attached to his name in police records.
Phelps said the subjective nature of McMurtrey’s reported fear made the Facebook posting regarding another convicted violent criminal being his “inspiration” relevant.
“My client never tried to hit him, my client never tried to do anything to him. Mere words are what the state is relying on to prove its case,” Phelps said.
The charge against Cordova, felony harassment – threats to kill, alleges Cordova’s statements caused McMurtrey to fear for his life, and that it was reasonable to believe Cordova could carry out the threat.
McMurtrey declined comment after the hearing.
Homicide suspect arrested 
Diana on February 02 at 5:45 a.m.
riftfaft, I’m not sure what you expect to happen by posting that. Not cool.
Mr_Injustice on February 02 at 7:03 a.m.
Howabout the Spokesman puts RiftRafts home address up so we can show him/her some love as well….
misjustice on February 02 at 7:08 a.m.
“… Deputy Prosecutor Steve Garvin had objected to jurors being told of McMurtrey’s support for Thompson…”
Of course the Prosecutor would object…
brianrbreen on February 02 at 8:14 a.m.
It looks to me like Judge Moreno was right in allowing the FB post to be admitted. It appears the jury must decide if the Officer was placed in “reasonable fear”. Perhaps he was, but the defense should have the opportunity to demonstrate the officer’s fear wasn’t reasonable under the circumstances and the fact that the officer was supportive, inspired by, and associated with another person convicted of a violent crime seems relevant if the officer originally said his fear was based in part because of Cordova’s criminal convictions.
The officer did apparently try and clean it up in his testimony:
“ In testimony, McMurtrey said he never claimed he “feared people who have been convicted of criminal convictions.”
Which is good because he will have to deal with a lot of them in his career. I just wonder how the jury will perceive the clean up.
In retrospect probably would have been better not to do the FB post one would think.
(b) The person by words or conduct places the person threatened in reasonable fear that the threat will be carried out. “Words or conduct” includes, in addition to any other form of communication or conduct, the sending of an electronic communication.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9a.46.020
This case certainly provides some insight with regard to the reluctance on the part of the City to have sustained IA findings on the officers involved in the “Salute” doesn’t it? They like Officer McMurtrey could find themselves in the same dilemma.
crazyivan44 on February 02 at 8:38 a.m.
Does it surprise anyone that a defense attorney would use Thompson as a scape goat to try and defend their client?
Now nobody can know the context of any of this without being on the jury, however the simple fact that an officer is showing support for one of his own, a brother, does not give any credence whatsoever for his ability to perform his duties per his code of ethics. So many have criticized other officers for not turning on Thompson and raising up pitchforks and torches with some members of the public.
There is a code these men and women live by, and part of that is supporting their own through thick and thin. Because someone supported Thompson it doesn’t mean they don’t believe he should or should not be punished according to his conviction. But they are also entitled to their opinion of whether they feel he is or is not guilty just as any of us civilians are.
What is disgusting is not that this officer supports Thompson. What is disgusting is that the public jumps on an emotional bandwagon and plays judge and jury before the facts are in, and they are willing to judge someone based upon soundbites and not on what is in the heart of the person and demonstrated through their actions.
There are bad cops just like there are bad ________ (fill in any occupation) in any town. They make up a miniscule percentage of the good ones, the honorable ones. None of us are in a place to judge anyone including Thompson. Thompson was brought before a panel of jurors that judged him and found him guilty, and he will be sentenced and do his time. Let it go.
Nugget on February 02 at 8:38 a.m.
Seems to me it has nothing to do with him being a felon. The person threatened the officers life. Thompson has not threatened him. You fear the person that is your threat. Case closed.
JayNW on February 02 at 8:53 a.m.
regardless of how you feel about Thompson and the Zehm case, nobody should be posting officers addresses, or advocating that someone go hurt them.
JayNW on February 02 at 8:54 a.m.
Nugget, also, this case happened almost a year ago, a good 9 months before that post. Before Thompson was convicted. So to me, that makes it even more irrellevant. At the time Cordova threatened to track down and kill this officer, Thompson was still presumed innocent and was not a convicted felon.
brianrbreen on February 02 at 8:56 a.m.
@crazyivan
“Let it go”
I’m sure there are a lot of people that would like it to be let go. But hasn’t letting it go brought it to the point that it is today. Should we just forget about a DOJ P&P, or a Commission looking into the SPD’s use of force? Should we let any attempts at oversight go? Should the Mayor and City Council just forget about all the time they are spending trying to figure out ways to establish credibility and respect? Obviously there are other folks in high places not willing to let it go so I think I’ll pass on letting it go…if you don’t mind.
The_Seer on February 02 at 9:02 a.m.
waaah, waaah, waaah… One would think being threatened by people you arrest is part of the job as a policeman, not an actionable offense. I’ve had students threaten to blow up my car but you don’t see me taking them to court.
What a sad joke the police have become.
GDodd on February 02 at 9:05 a.m.
@ The_Seer AMEN
brianrbreen on February 02 at 9:19 a.m.
@JayNW
“Objectivity” is an interesting concept isn’t it? In a lot of cases both sides can’t be objective and understand the other’s position. Most of the time the truth is somewhere in the middle. This court case aside and all of the hoopla regarding relevance or fear or anything else… my position is the public FB post was stupid, and I can’t be objective about it.
BTW: I believe I was the first to flag the address post. That also was stupid.
JayNW on February 02 at 9:21 a.m.
Threatening to kill someone is a felony, no matter what your occupation is. It should not be an accepted way to speak to anyone, including law enforcement.
When we start to accept peoples trashy and ilegal behavior, it only brings us all down as a society.
JayNW on February 02 at 9:30 a.m.
@ Brian- I agree with what you said. I’m not advocating the FB post either.
brianrbreen on February 02 at 10:03 a.m.
@JayNW
You are right it is for everyone if there is a threat to kill etc, I wasn’t clear in my earlier post. The big issue is whether it was reasonable for the officer to be in fear. I suspect that Phelps was making a big issue of that, and comparing a private citizen to a CJ employee who deals with threats all the time.
The CJ addition came after I left and it looks to be a good one. But I would think you really have to pick and choose the cases you bring. The prosecutor brought this one so I must assume they felt it was a good one. I hope it’s guilty if the facts are there, but I also wish that the officer hadn’t brought upon himself what happened regarding the FB post and in turn perhaps affecting other members of the Department.
EthicsinLE on February 02 at 10:45 a.m.
Seer, you seem to have a deep mistrust of law enforcement. I genuinely believe this is in part due to a misunderstanding / lack of knowledge of officer safety, what officers really face, etc.. I think if you saw and expierenced it from an officers perspective, you might be more open minded and understanding. Wanna do a ride along? And by the way, if any student threatened a teacher, id be making an arrest. Our teachers have a difficult enough job as it is.
Shelala on February 02 at 11:00 a.m.
If everyone could be prosecuted for threats made in the heat of a moment, especially during a domestic violence situation, IMO the jails would be full - the sullen teenager who slams the door of his room after being grounded, the rants of a spouse after the discovery of infidelity, the driver being cut off in traffic, even the witch in the Wizard of Oz when she threatens “I’ll get you and your little dog too”. Prior felons, I would assume have families and encounter the same situations. Thompson is a convicted felon and I bet he had a few choice words about the federal prosecutor’s goal of finally getting him locked up. No reasonable person condones threats of violence towards anyone - cop or not. The real issue is the insulting, ranting FB posts about the public and in support of KT that appeared on KT’s support FB page and how they effect an officer’s credibility. IMO Phelps selected a rather “tame” post by the officer others are more outrageous. Even if the group is now closed to public view, their continued comments are likely more disparaging because they no longer have to worry about the public ire. Comments such as these by a LE officer speaks towards his attitude and ability to do his job fairly and unbiased. and DO address credibility. When you lose this, you have lost it all.
crazyivan44 on February 02 at 11:09 a.m.
Brian,
I’m not saying don’t keep an eye on the investigation of the department or work to enhance image, if that is the impression you got then I was incomplete. Allow me to elaborate on my post.
There was an outcry and federal agencies responded and are stepping in to do an investigation. Certainly they should be held accountable and the issue at hand should not be swept under the rug. But the investigation and subsequent conclusion of the investigation needs to be respected even if the determination is not what the public wants.
When I say “let it go” I am referring to continuing posts and comments from people that attempt to tie in Thompson to anything SPD does (on many other articles not specifically this one). SPD is composed of fine officers that interact with the lowest of lowlifes to protect Spokane’s residents and visitors. If it is determined that things need to change, whether it is individual officers or administrative staff, then those changes should take place. The issue has been heard and is being addressed and will take time in order to do it right. There will be a public report of findings and what actions are to be taken, in the meantime the public needs to allow the space and respect for those actions to take place and stop rehashing Thompson at every opportunity. And shame on the defense attorney in this article for dredging up something so trivial in an attempt to get his dirt bag client off the hook. Albeit if I was an officer I would probably not post something like that on facebook, however I think his right to express his opinions should be respected and his actions should not be judged according to a posted opinion.
Seer: Really? You certainly have the right to not press charges against your students if they threaten you, but this officer should have every right to file charges of assault on this cretin. If this guy is arrogant enough to think he can threaten the very face of law and order and instill fear then it will only embolden him to further act out as a bully. Corrective discipline will be good for him!
Shelala on February 02 at 11:33 a.m.
IMO, The Thompson/Zehm incident isn’t old news that the public needs to move on from. Quite the opposite. I think it is important to address the issues - all of them - that allowed the incident to take place in order to prevent future similar incidents and to clean up or create a functional police force that actually serves the public. If any city leader is waiting for the issues of the saluters, facebook entries or other questionable actions bt SPD to blow over, they are sadly mistaken. They will need to do the hard work of addressing the issues head on. There are many who would love to sweep the issues under the proverbial rug and move on hoping the public has a short memory. It should be fairly evident that this isn’t gonna happen. Their continued silence is not golden and merely reinforces the idea that the public’s concerns are not being addressed.
JayNW on February 02 at 11:35 a.m.
@ Shelala- when a multi convicted violent felon, with an officer caution tag tells a cop he is going to find where he lives and kill him when he gets out of jail, and says this threat more than twice, along with bragging about being to prison for violent crimes, I would take that much more serious than my child who is upset because I took away their playstation or a driver who got cut off. You have to look at the totality of circumstances, the defendants violent tendancies in the past, his history of violent behavior towards cops and the fact he was just arrested for hitting his wife. Any reasonable person, cop or not would tend to believe this type of person would carry out that threat.
What I also find interesteing is that it didn’t take me long to google the defendant and find out he also has gang affiliations. I would imagine the officer and prosecutor both knew this when arresting, and filing these charges. One would think that is also a factor to consider when pondering whether or not this defendant would be capable of carrying out such threat.
SMARTGUY on February 02 at 11:40 a.m.
Whatever happened to the right to free speech, only as long as it does not upset anyone I guess.
The_Seer on February 02 at 11:48 a.m.
smartguy: Courts have long held public employees don’t have unfettered “free speech” rights in the course of their duties of acting in an official capacity. The question is whether identifying oneself as a policeman and then making comments supportive of convicted felons violates an agreed upon code of conduct.
If you work for a private employer they can regulate your “free speech” rights all they want, right?
Nugget on February 02 at 11:52 a.m.
Because of the fear liberal has of the police, I don’t know why he-she doesn’t move away from Spokane. For someone to have such disdain & contempt for them, I would think he would want to move as far away from them as possible.
Shelala on February 02 at 11:55 a.m.
@ayNW
I understand your point, but if this suspect were to simply proclaim he has found religion and is just a changed man now, would it negate the charges? Facetious, I know, but the idea of charging anyone for what they “might” do seems very subjective. If a person racks up a lot of speeding tickets, but is still allowed to drive, do we charge them for potentially causing a serous accident? I don’t condone this felon’s threats, gang affiliations or anything of the sort, but it seems like a slippery slope to lock up anyone for the potential of committing a serious crime when none as occurred. That’s why they created the federal witness protection program.
brianrbreen on February 02 at 12:19 p.m.
@CrazyIvan
As far as the continuing posts are concerned regarding Thompson. I understand your position, and agree with it to a certain extent, but it’s a fact of life and that issue hasn’t been put to bed, nor will it be for a while. So I think it is important to accept that fact, and realize that just like my friend Lewis very, very few people on here actually hate cops, they are just upset, about a lot of things that have happened, as am I. So I’m willing to put up with all the rhetoric on both sides and in my own mind try and take things in perspective. I must admit however I am so mad at Thompson for what he has done to the Department that it is hard for me to be objective. Most of the young cops and the young Brass won’t understand that.
Say what you want about this case, the fact of the matter is the Thompson case brought all the questions forward, and that is a good thing. By the same token how will the Department, its Employees, and the Prosecutors Office react to what has happened in this case. Like I said if the officer was truly in fear of his life, I hope to heck there is a Guilty Verdict. On the other hand if the officer in reality wasn’t all that in fear and this was a case of “let’s do it” than a not guilt verdict is in order.
My whole point regardless of the verdict and regardless of the relevance of the FB posting, Is pretty simple. If the verdict comes back guilty there will be those that will say I told you so. On the other hand if the verdict comes back “Not Guilty” there will be those that will say I told you so. That is just how it is. As for me, I would say to Officer McMurtrey “Don’t ever get caught up in what other cops are doing, sometimes its wrong, and when it is, if you allow yourself to be manipulated then you have to deal with the consequences, some can others can’t”
JayNW on February 02 at 12:57 p.m.
@ Shelala- this goes well beyond what someone might do. As per the Washington laws, here is what is says about harassament/threats to kill. Again, it is the law. When you threaten to kill someone, and there is a reasonable fear that the threat can/would be carried out, that is a felony in Washington state.
9A.46.020
“Definition — Penalties.
(b) A person who harasses another is guilty of a class C felony if any of the following apply:
(ii) the person harasses another person under subsection (1)(a)(i) OF THIS SECTION BY THREATENING TO KILL THE PERSON THREATENED or any other person;
(iii) the person harasses a criminal justice participant who is performing his or her official duties at the time the threat is made; or (iv) the person harasses a criminal justice participant because of an action taken or decision made by the criminal justice participant during the performance of his or her official duties. For the purposes of (b)(iii) and (iv) of this subsection,
The fear from the threat must be a fear that a reasonable criminal justice participant would have UNDER ALL OF THE circumstances. Threatening words do not constitute harassment if it is apparent to the criminal justice participant that the person does not have the present and future ability to carry out the threat.”
Nothing the defendnat does going forward negates the charges. Good for him if he finds God. Doesn’t mean he didn’t commit the crime. When I mentioned his past, it goes toward the totality of circumstances. Its not becuase he is a felon, or gang member that he is charged. But Add Everything together, and it give credence to the officer (or anyone knowing what the officer knew) being in reasonable fear that Cordova could and would carry out the threat to kill him.
Shelala on February 02 at 1:37 p.m.
@JayNW
I really know little about this law by my own admission and to be honest, I am a little torn both ways. I don’t favor locking someone up for something they said, but don’t carry out and I recognize the threat to the officer’s safety. I am glad I am not on that jury. IMO the real issue is the officer’s FB comments being called into play. These cyberspace comments will likely be used to challenge an officer’s credibility for a long time, if not throughout his career. What may have been a slam dunk case, has now been muddied. by the officer’s own voluntary questionable actions. On one hand it is unfortunate that the Thompson fiasco will create credibility problems for some officers, but on the other hand, maybe it is a good thing those officer’s attitudes and bias has been revealed so that it is easy to identify future problems and possibly rid the force of less than professional personnel.
IanJones on February 02 at 1:45 p.m.
So let me get this straight…..If someone known for a lifetime of violence, with gang ties, threatens to kill, or rape, kill Shelala or her family/kids…and she is in reasonable fear that this person could carry out their threat…..IF that person has not actually killed, raped, maimed, or actually took an action on that threat then according to Shelala the cops should just walk away…after all she could just uproot her life, her families life, and go into the witness protection program…..NOW if the person actually makes good on that threat then…and only then, the police should do something about it… I mean in essence she is saying that is how things should work if it is a police officer….she has no more rights then the officer…so what is good for the goose is good for the gander right? Shelala’s reasoning just doesnt make sense….
Shelala on February 02 at 2:04 p.m.
@Ian
Getta clue. Frankly, the cop vs citizen issue wasn’t questioned. I simply think that is seemed too subjective. What I may fear may not be realistic to others or visa versa. I am not even suggesting that because it involves a cop the threat is any more or less serious or “special”. What I am saying is that social media is being used to attack credibility in the courtroom. Not only for cops, but for all who find themselves there. It would be naive to believe that if you are involved in any court proceeding, your name will not be googled or your facebook posts will be explored. New day.
IanJones on February 02 at 2:19 p.m.
Somehow I don’t think you would think it was too “subjective” if it involved you or your family….I really think the FB posting is not gonna make a bit of difference….When I read the article….My first thought was….What does THAT have to do with this particular case? From an outsider looking in…seems like it is just alot of hoopla over nothing….I think certain posters are just too quick to draw judgment. I have lived in numerous different cities….and have found in every city the police departments can’t make everyone happy….there is always going to be the conspiracy theorists…..and that really is what appears to be on here….I think the general public, including myself, realize that there is always more to what is reported in the media…the media is in the business of making money…so the more controversial they can make a story the better…..even if it is not accurate reporting….I can say that in my opinion, the media in Spokane is very one sided and slanted…..I for one continue to have faith in our police department….I don’t have blind faith….ask me what I think about the New Orleans police department…and my opinion is different….after things I saw there….Spokane police seem like Choir boys….
brianrbreen on February 02 at 2:38 p.m.
Oh… for crying out loud let the jury decide if the cop was really in fear of his life or that of his family, and then live with it.
brianrbreen on February 02 at 3:13 p.m.
@IanJones @JayNW
Come on, its not like cops haven’t heard “Take the cuffs off and I’ll kick your arse” (not like that that hasn’t happened), or “I like your daughter she is hot, where do you live?” or “I’m going to kill your f88king a## when I get out”, or my ever favorite from the dark side. “ When I get out of here I’m going to kill you and bu## f**k the lawyer.” If the young officer was honestly concerned about himself and his family, I hope to heck there is a conviction.
Shelala on February 02 at 3:14 p.m.
@Brian
Well….yeah.
greenlibertarian on February 02 at 3:14 p.m.
If the perp is hell-bent on “getting” the officer, won’t this merely delay the inevitable?
IanJones on February 02 at 3:26 p.m.
For crying out loud let the jury decide and then live with it….The same could be said for allowing Thompson to exhaust all of his appeals allowed by law, and if he gets a new trial and found not guilty or guilty then live with it…After all he is allowed, just like anyone else, to appeal his conviction….It is how our justice system works…
Of course I am sure cops have heard all of those threats…and I am willing to bet they don’t arrest everyone who makes them….But if they are in reasonable fear by a particular threat made by a particular subject, and it is reasonable to be in fear then by all means they should charge them with the felony harassment….
silverlake89 on February 02 at 3:28 p.m.
Interesting how the only verbal threats that can be taken seriously are the ones against officers.
How much you wanna bet Cordova has verbally threatened his ex multiple times and never spent a night in jail for it?
brianrbreen on February 02 at 3:32 p.m.
@Green
The guys I was concerned about were the guys that didn’t say crap, and just looked. Figured they were smart enough to keep their mouth shut and just do it. Figured if the guy is dumb enough to shoot his mouth off in front of witnesses, at least it will be solved and my family would get my retirement for the rest of their life and my kids would go to college free.
JayNW on February 02 at 3:34 p.m.
I’m pretty sure that cops get threatened eveyr day, and are not charge. However, if someone is charged, then imo, there must be reasonable fear that the threat is credible.
lewis8457 on February 02 at 3:34 p.m.
I think that is the whole issue here Brian. The fact that after the trial so many cops went on the FB page and supported Thompson spit in the face of every law abiding person in this city.
We are all taught that our justice system gets the last word good or bad that is the final word. When a man is found guilty in a court of the law everyone has to admit he is guilty in his or her own mind.
To go on a public site and say the death of a citizen does not count and the law somehow got it wrong because the guy in question is a cop and good guy goes against the pride we should have for our local police.
Couldn’t the cop of got a restraining order, then if the felon broke that he could be arrested. Just arresting him because he threatened him seems a bit harsh.
lewis8457 on February 02 at 3:36 p.m.
brian that is me i would have just taken care of the problem myself, someone threatens your life the rule book goes out the window.
brianrbreen on February 02 at 3:36 p.m.
@IanJones
I’m with you, if there is a new trial, and Thompson is acquitted then I well accept it. If Judge Van Sickle, says it’s a done deal and its over I’ll accept that as well. How about you?
brianrbreen on February 02 at 3:46 p.m.
@JayNW
I agree, if its there it is there. I just hate to have stupidity enter into the equation don’t you?
Shelala on February 02 at 3:47 p.m.
@Ian
There is a difference in the Thompson case. He was a public servant whose actions led to the death of an innocent citizen. Although he is pending sentencing in federal court, we need to examine why our own leaders failed to seek charges and what failure(s) allowed this incident to take take place and correct them, The case served as a red flag to the citizens of Spokane that changes are needed. The public has a decidedly important interest in the case above and beyond the legal process. Ironically, the SPD are the ones blasting the legal process and have shown an outrageous lack of respect for the laws and the public they serve. The implications are far reaching and are of a concern to every citizen.
brianrbreen on February 02 at 3:54 p.m.
@Lewis
I was with you until you reached “the take care of it yourself”, and even though I would have liked to many a time except for once I didn’t, but I escaped not getting in trouble that time and only because the guy and I both gained respect for each other afterwards.
Hell let the system take care of it…its easier on your hands, and sometime on your face.
Shelala on February 02 at 4:00 p.m.
Ya know, if the leaders actually addressed the problems related to the Thompson/Zehm incident and took substantial measures towards reform and transparency, Thompson’s name would not be included in every media report involving SPD. Apparently, they feel its better to stew with the occasional boil over until the feds come in and tell them what to do (if and when).
brianrbreen on February 02 at 4:48 p.m.
@Shelala
Amen….
IanJones on February 02 at 4:49 p.m.
Of course after all of Thompson’s appeals are exhausted I am good with whatever the outcome is…..I believe in our criminal justice system….
I don’t think the officers who have voiced their opinions of support are showing a “lack of respect for the laws”…they are just voicing their opinions….doesn’t mean they won’t uphold the laws. Too many posters seem to want to believe the officers arent human, with real emotions…..emotions afforded to everyone one….whether right or wrong….
IanJones on February 02 at 4:53 p.m.
As far as the “Feds” telling them what to do….I am under the impression that should they decide to take on the investigation, at tax payers cost (so why wouldnt they, we all gotta make money right?) that no officer is going to lose their job….like so many of you apparently want, it is to tell the police dept what policy and procedures need changing….doesn’t seem like a big deal…after all Seattle just went thru it, and they seem to be up and running just find….business as usual…
Shelala on February 02 at 5:08 p.m.
@Ian
The prospect of a P&P have been discussed ad nauseam in previous posts including comparisons to Seattle’s experience. It might be informative to go back and read through those.
IanJones on February 02 at 5:15 p.m.
Am I wrong Shelala….after the feds went to Seattle did any officer lose their job because of it? The only thing I am aware of….is they were told to change some of their policy and procedures….doesnt’ seem like a huge deal to me….maybe I am missing something….
IanJones on February 02 at 5:17 p.m.
ad nauseam? I have to admit I don’t know what you mean by that…
Shelala on February 02 at 5:22 p.m.
@Ian
to the point you just want to throw up, Kinda like your posts :)).
IanJones on February 02 at 5:26 p.m.
That is a non-condusive statement…non-productive, and does nothing to further your plight….just gives people a reason to not take the poster seriously….
IanJones on February 02 at 5:29 p.m.
Did an officer or officer’s lose their job in Seattle after the feds came in….seems when certain posters are pinned down for an exact answer they don’t want to give…they just ignore it…..somehow makes me believe certain posters only post half truths….just how it seems….
Shelala on February 02 at 5:34 p.m.
@Ian
Sorry if you took it to be offensive. I couldn’t resist….the opening was just too wide.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 02 at 5:36 p.m.
Ian grow a sense of humor. I see just what she means about your posts.
You have attacked my character because of my blog handle, are you any better to believe since you attack others?
And yes, may of us do want to see LE lose their jobs. They are out of control.
IanJones on February 02 at 5:54 p.m.
I dont see any sense of humor in this whole thing….after all a man lost his life….and another man will spend his time in prison…..as far as attacking u….im not attacking you….just saying with ur handle ur posts cant be taken seriously…..nothing more..nothing less….
brianrbreen on February 02 at 6:00 p.m.
@Ian
I won’t ignore it. Please don’t consider me an expert by any means but I do have a little experience with departments under P&Ps. You might want to consider that Seattle and Portland are new to the game. Perhaps it would be a good idea to look carefully at other departments that have been under the gun for a while. Just out of the blue I’m thinking it might be a good idea to look at New Orleans. A trip there might be revealing. I would suggest N.O. as long as it is during the spring when the heat/humidity isn’t so bad.
IanJones on February 02 at 6:09 p.m.
SO…did an officer or officers in Seattle lose their job after the FEDS came in……simple question…that no one seems willing to answer…..I have lived in New Orleans…and YES that is a department that needed cleaning up..no doubt about it…
IanJones on February 02 at 6:14 p.m.
And no offense…but I wouldnt take any poster on here as an expert on the matter…..don’t know the posters don’t know their background….posters can tell you anything they want….doesnt mean its truthful or even remotely accurate….I take everything on here as peoples personal opinions….
brianrbreen on February 02 at 8:51 p.m.
@IanJones
No offense taken. Generally speaking I would have picked you for more of a Bossier rather than N.O. type…you know like go Mudbugs…that type of thing.
IanJones on February 02 at 9:09 p.m.
What??? That made no sense to me….I am not following that last post……
brianrbreen on February 02 at 9:12 p.m.
It was a bit strange wasn’t it?
IanJones on February 02 at 9:16 p.m.
I guess Im just not following…..must be some kind of blogger humor…I prefer to stay on topic I guess….
misjustice on February 02 at 9:27 p.m.
“did an officer or officers in Seattle lose their job after the FEDS came in……”
The officer (Ian Birk) that murdered the wood carver (John Williams) “resigned”. And the Chief is currently looking at other officers’ employment status; the DOJ investigation just wrapped up a little over a month ago.
As most of us know, it is very difficult to “fire” unionized workers, cops or not. Just because officers have not been fired doesn’t meant that they shouldn’t be.
Oh, and then there’s that “Garrity” thingy stuff, and too also.
Just sayin’…
misjustice on February 02 at 9:31 p.m.
Bossier Parish (Shreveport) versus New Orleans (N.O)…
geez, even I got it…and I never claimed in a blog post to have recently lived there.
misjustice on February 02 at 9:35 p.m.
Go Mudbugs
Bossier-Shreveport
Go Chiefs
Spokane
Are you certain that you lived in N.O.???? Ever?
IanJones on February 02 at 9:35 p.m.
Well thank you for answering my question….I am by no means completely informed in this area….I just wasn’t following what his post had to do with the subject….and still don’t…but at least you answered my question….I guess I am learning that not all posters in here stay on topic….
misjustice on February 02 at 9:42 p.m.
He’s a cop, he’s using his skills to test the veracity of your claims.
At least that’s my read on it. I could be wrong, I frequently am.
Really, anyone that spent any time in N.O. would have picked up on the references; you didn’t. Therefore, the veracity of your claim is in doubt.
But I’m probably wrong. Don’t worry about it. Like YOU said, we can’t truly trust that stuff that folks say about themselves any ways…
greenlibertarian on February 02 at 10:52 p.m.
Well that didn’t take too long to ferret out the poser, nicely done. Some of ya’ll got the PATIENCE of Saints.
brianrbreen on February 03 at 5:33 a.m.
@misjustice
Generally speaking, I’m just not sharp enough to do things like that. But thank you for thinking I am. :) :)
IanJones on February 03 at 7:59 a.m.
Dear Lord you people are strange….I spent two years in New Orleans…didn’t say I was “from” there…..You guys act like there is some huge conspiracy going on all of the time……I had questions…I asked them….you guys can’t stay on topic….if you really wanted your opinions taken seriously you would be a little more grown up about it…..but you really dont…you just act like a bunch of school yard bullies….what a waste of my time….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 9:02 a.m.
@IanJones
I certainly hope that I had nothing to do with “bullying”. If you perceive I was in some way please forgive me. I sure didn’t intend to.
“.what a waste of my time….”
I’m not sure what this means, but if this has been a waste I’m sorry you feel that way.
Perhaps if you are upset a two week repast somewhere where the climate is warmer would help, generallyspeaking/justme09 is apparently enjoying warmer weather.
generallyspeaking on January 26 at 9:04 a.m.
See BB…you just proved you are full of hot air….IF you knew anything you would know my name is Jerome….unless my birth certificate is wrong…..But for now…I am off to a warmer climate for two glorious weeks…..so you all have fun in front of your computers……!!
On topic…Ms. Cuniff didn’t report a verdict yesterday and it sounded like they were deliberating yesterday AM. Wonder if this is one the Jury is having a problem with? What do you think?
IanJones on February 03 at 9:07 a.m.
Again….the post makes no sense to me……guess I am just not cut out for this silliness…..I was hoping to get some informative information in here on a topic that seems to flood the media….but obviously this is not the place to get it….
IanJones on February 03 at 1:17 p.m.
Oh…and my guess is not guilty….otherwise the original reporter and the media would be all over it……I could be wrong…but if that is the case, just furthers my suspicion that the media does not tell all….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 2:14 p.m.
@IanJones
I’m sorry but that doesn’t make sense to me. I would think based your view of the MSM you would think it would be the other way around. Thanks for the tip though.
IanJones on February 03 at 2:26 p.m.
My bad…meant guilty….not a tip…just a guess….got get over your paranoia or conspiracy theory already…
IanJones on February 03 at 2:27 p.m.
You seem to be quite the instigator….I wonder what your agenda is really all about???
brianrbreen on February 03 at 2:29 p.m.
No paranoia…that’s what I thought you meant…just trying to help you out.
IanJones on February 03 at 2:38 p.m.
It doesn’t appear that you are trying to help me out…I just had honest questions….that I thought maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject might have….and all I got was sarcasm and school yard bullying…. and you insinuate I have some kind of covert agenda….shame on me for wanting to know answers to honest questions….or better yet shame on me for thinking I might get them on here….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 2:44 p.m.
Whatever you say…you know the verdict was right?
brianrbreen on February 03 at 2:50 p.m.
I just thought it was interesting that you would accuse Ms. Cuniff and the SR of not doing a story on the verdict. I have all the confidence in the world that she will.
IanJones on February 03 at 2:58 p.m.
No I don’t….I said my GUESS was guilty, as I have not heard anything on it….but after my experience in here..I don’t even care anymore……doesn’t effect my daily life….and I don’t need the sarcasm given to me in here for just wanting to ask questions and be possibly better informed….so I will just go back to not giving a hoot about the subject….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 3:06 p.m.
You misunderstood…. I posted “you know the verdict was right?”
Meaning guilty or not guilty it is a Jury verdict, and therefore under our system…right.
misjustice on February 03 at 3:20 p.m.
Bullying? If that is your perception, Ian, I apologize. I am also sorry if I make you paranoid just because I have never lived in N.O. and know about Mudbugs. Sorry, my bad.
brianrbreen on February 03 at 3:28 p.m.
@misjustice
I’m with you.. no bullying. I’ve remained pretty steadfast in my protestant beliefs and it isn’t a part of those beliefs. But to be honest I’m taking a good look at Hinduism. They have that “Reincarnation” thing going on and I have seen it actually happen a number of times right here, so I’m thinking there may be something to it.
IanJones on February 03 at 3:56 p.m.
I know about mudbugs….just didnt know what it had to do with the topic…..and the above sarcasm is exactly what I am talking about….You guys hurt anyone taking your posts or opinions seriously….as a matter of fact makes me want to just run the other way and not even have an open mind to your plight…so If that was your agenda you succeeded….Keep up the sarcasm and keep driving people away and you will hurt Otto’s family….not help….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 4:08 p.m.
Now that would be bullying…just so you know.
misjustice on February 03 at 4:33 p.m.
I didn’t mean to hurt you, Ian.
Or the Otto Zehm family, they have been hurt enough…
Brian, did you intend to hurt Ian? Or Otto?
Why, oh why, did you lead me down the Mudbug path, Brian?
And to think that we were all getting along so nicely until then. Well, there was some name calling and making fun of someone’s screen name but I’m sure that Ian didn’t intend to personally attack liveinfear and that he would never attempt to bully any one; he is just new here and isn’t sure how we roll.
Cause after all this isn’t N.O. where they “Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez” if ya know what I mean?
brianrbreen on February 03 at 4:43 p.m.
@mistjustice
I do know what you mean, and I’m sorry I lead you into the mud…bugs that is.
It’s not about you, or anyone else its about a little thing awhile back, any chance this person gets they will take a shot at me, and if there is someone else in the way them too.
IanJones on February 03 at 6:27 p.m.
Wasn’t making a personal attack on Livinginfearof spd….was just saying that if he wanted anyone to take his posts seriously….his handle wasn’t helping…makes him seem on the extremest side……I hope Otto’s family doesn’t read your posts…..I think they would be mortified to see you guys are turning people away from their pain…you guys should be ashamed of yourselves….I am sure Otto’s family doesn’t see the humor in your posts…they lost a family member….and you guys seem to think this is a place to exploit their loss…..vial in the worst way…..would you print out ALL your posts and show them to Otto’s family….or would you be ashamed at some of your behavior….If you lost a mother, brother, son, daughter or any family member or close friend…would you want people to be joking about mud bugs if you have any good intentions you would look back on your posts and see where you are offensive to the memory of Otto….I feel for his family with supposed supporters like you……disgusting, and I will not be a part of it….
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 03 at 6:37 p.m.
As long as the shots at me are only happening in cyberspace…I will
“Let the good times roll” :)
Shelala on February 03 at 6:41 p.m.
@Brian
Get it over with…you know you want to:)
misjustice on February 03 at 7:03 p.m.
Ian lamented, “I will not be a part of it….”
Hmmm, but you have been. OH, you mean that you will NO LONGER be a part of it? Well then, this is goodbye; I guess?
Been nice not knowin’ ya.
@ Brian, what is it about you and “a little thing awhile back”?
; )
Does anyone know when a decision in this trial is expected?
Cause if the state prevails, I have an interesting “case” of being threatened with bodily harm by a close associate of Spokan’ts “Russian Mafia” and their threats put me in a state of fear and apprehension. I’m sure that the Prosecuting Attorney’s office would be all over it, being as how they take “words” so seriously and all.
misjustice on February 03 at 7:04 p.m.
@ Brian, what is it about you and “a little thing awhile back”?
; )
I should have added that you seem to have several of these “a little thing awhile back” thingys…
Shelala on February 03 at 7:21 p.m.
Read on Sirens and Gavels that a guilty finding has been reached. I respect the jury’s decision. I think most jurors take their jobs seriously and considered everything. This is our legal system at work.
Shelala on February 03 at 7:38 p.m.
@MsJustice
The state prevailed, but the law states the crime is only a felony if it involves a criminal justice employee, as I understand it. So if your a civilian, I guess you just gotta put up with those threats because it is only a gross misdemeanor and probably won’t be charged. Don’t get it, but hey, it’s not my call.
brianrbreen on February 03 at 7:55 p.m.
@Shelala
No I just can’t. See what I do is I try and get an understanding of peoples opinions and see how they might comport with mine. So I read all the LTEs and try to figure out where people are coming from. As an example I read all of these and found them interesting, as well as the perspective they were coming from.
http://www.spokesman.com/letters/writers/314/
The first one below in particular struck me as a bit odd in that one of the posters “no_bs” was known to me, and I thought it was kind of a curious posting. But I got it figured out.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/18/spokane-hardly-tranquil/
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/28/man-shot-death-spokane-hotel-identified/
I still for the life of me don’t understand why “no_bs” would take a public shot at Steve Tucker given the circumstances.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/nov/18/spokane-hardly-tranquil/
So I just can’t do it. BTW, if you threaten to kill non law enforcement and they reasonably fear the threat it is a felony
brianrbreen on February 03 at 8:04 p.m.
@misjustice
I might just add that I certainly would take offense to anyone suggesting I was in any way trying to hurt the Zehm family. I think my old department has done more than enough of that and if I can make up for it in any way I will.
IanJones on February 03 at 8:39 p.m.
Well….you are not doing a very good job of it….you are doing quite the opposite with your sarcasm….and like I said…you should be ashamed of yourself….While I tried to understand both sides….you certainly made sure I wouldnt see yours….If I was Otto’s family I sure wouldn’t want several people who post on here in my corner….I would assume Otto’s family wants the public to embrace them, understand them, as well as understand Otto….I would think they would want people on their side to have the personality to draw people in…not push them away…..which is exactly what several of you do, while you seem to entertain yourselves at Otto’s expense……
brianrbreen on February 03 at 8:43 p.m.
@Shelala
I copied the wrong link regarding Prosecutor Steve Tucker and “no_bs”. This is the correct one.
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sirens/2011/apr/15/steve-tucker-makes-public-appearance/
brianrbreen on February 03 at 8:55 p.m.
@IanJones
Yes we understand …you are the victim…and all of us posting here have victimized the Zehm family…got it! As have Doug Clark, Tom Clouse, Shawn Vestal, and Meghann Cuniff, and the SR in general.
IanJones on February 03 at 9:08 p.m.
Wow….you really are cold hearted aren’t you? It’s not about me….it’s not about the posters or the reporters…It’s about Otto….OTTO is dead….and yes….your inappropriate self entertainment is victimizing his family….You just can’t admit some of your posts as well as other posters have been completely disrespectful to Otto and his family…… Really brings into question your ethics….
Shelala on February 03 at 9:10 p.m.
@Brian
Entertaining. Sorta like watching psychological drama on the tube with bad actors :).
brianrbreen on February 03 at 9:12 p.m.
Question away…Wonder what you think about the Feds in the Zehm case. Do you agree with “generallyspeaking/justme09 that they were dirty?
generallyspeaking on January 25 at 9:36 a.m.
Feds are dirty….this article sounds VERY much like the Thompson case….
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-11-22/ted-stevens-prosecutors-misconduct-probe-corruption/51333612/1
See I don’t think so.
brianrbreen on February 03 at 9:21 p.m.
@Shelala
That’s real nice, my new best friend “Ian” questions my ethics…and now you accuse me of being a “bad actor”.
IanJones on February 03 at 9:26 p.m.
It’s not for me to say…generallyspeaking to say, or anyone else to say, if anyone is dirty in this whole thing, because no one in here was present from the beginning to end of the whole ordeal…..and I am not quite sure what your propensity to put up generallyspeaking’s post is about….If he thinks the feds are dirty so what?? His posts are of no interest to me because he seemed to have an agenda, much like a few others in here….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 9:26 p.m.
@IanJones
Show me one of those posts that was disrespectful to the Zehm family…lets see if your strategy here works, and you can deflect using the you guys are victimizing people fallacy.
IanJones on February 03 at 9:29 p.m.
Not quite sure what that article has to do with this particular case…it was a totally different investigation, different investigators….so I don’t see the relevance of some other Feds investigation…..You can’t say because one Fed might have done something wrong ALL Feds do things wrong…
Shelala on February 03 at 9:32 p.m.
@Brian
Yes, you have a friend in IA-n
brianrbreen on February 03 at 9:33 p.m.
@IanJones
So the Spokane DOJ are the good guys….right. Gee I hope so.
IanJones on February 03 at 9:37 p.m.
Any post joking about mud bugs…or as livinginfearofspd’s quote…Let the good times roll…..or being told to get a sense of humor…when this subject is no laughing matter…you and others sense of humors is disrespectful to Otto’a family…I am sure they find no humor in any of this….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 9:39 p.m.
@Ian
Oh…I see! Any more?
brianrbreen on February 03 at 9:41 p.m.
@Ian
Spokane DOJ is okay with you though right?
brianrbreen on February 03 at 9:43 p.m.
@Ian
I take it you didn’t think Doug Clark’s song was very good either…correct?
misjustice on February 03 at 10:23 p.m.
Ian cried, while dabbing at his tears with a monogrammed hanky and one pinky daintily held aloft “….I feel for his family with supposed supporters like you……disgusting, and I will not be a part of it….” And yet, 5 posts later, our dear Ian, champion of the long suffering Zehm family continues to choose to be a part of the hurt leveled and heaped upon the very family he so bravely defends.
Have you no shame, man?
At least the rest of us are admitted heathens and known miscreants, but you? Ian? Not you too?
I am shattered beyond the ability to describe, I had hoped against hope, against all odds that our bright and shining knight, our newest saviour, that bright shining beacon of propriety and all that is good and pure and right would ride in on his white stead to show us lowly no good for nuthin’s the path to righteousness.
And I sit here, at my laptop, with my hopes swept up into the dustbin of dispair. For it would appear, for all intent and purposes, that you, dear sir, have stooped down to our lowly level and are mucking about in the sloggy sloppiness of the muck and mire right along with the rest of us Mudbugs.
sniff…sniff…sniff…
Might I borrow your monogrammed hanky, dear sir, to wipe my tears of despair?
*sigh*
What a cruel, cruel world. I am so disillusioned.
brianrbreen on February 03 at 10:33 p.m.
@misjustice
That was quite well done…bravo.
I’ve still got this concern about Ian’s view of the local DOJ, I hope it’s a good one I’d hate to think Ian’s view of them was anything but good.
IanJones on February 03 at 10:33 p.m.
If the FEDS comes in and tells our local police dept they need to make changes….then they need to make changes…Doesn’t matter either way to me…I have never had an encounter with a police officer here…and yes I do think Doug Clark’s satire was in poor taste….just as I think the above post by Misjustice is inappropriate and is part of that vial humor I speak of….THAT would make Ottos family real happy wouldn’t it….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 10:36 p.m.
@IanJones
So are you saying that our local DOJ are the good guys then and they did a good job on the Thompson case? Or are you evading that one?
IanJones on February 03 at 10:41 p.m.
Not evading it….don’t know enough about it to form an opinion one way or the other…
brianrbreen on February 03 at 10:43 p.m.
@IanJones
I see…well they must have done a good job they got convictions on both counts, I guess that made the Zehm family happy.
misjustice on February 03 at 10:46 p.m.
@ Brian, I thought he was “done”?
Got a fork?
For some reason I’m reminded of those big ol’ Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade balloons.
Not really sure why that came to mind, Brian. But it just popped into my mind and now I can’t get it out. Have you ever had that happen to you?
You know, one minute you’re thinkin’ all high minded and contemplating the meaning of life while cleaning fuzz outta your belly button and you think that maybe you’re onto something really good and important, and you are right on the verge of discovering like the meaning of life or something equally as important, and then - poof - something really weird crosses your mind and you can’t get rid of it no matter how hard you try to?
And you try to get the image of that Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade balloon outta your mind but you just can’t no matter how much you try. And so you give up trying to and just go with the image of that big ol’ balloon bouncin’ around, buffeted by the wind, larger than life, and all cartoonish like, and try as you might you just can’t get it outta your mind. Ever had that happen like that to you?
Just wonderin’…Brian…
; )
brianrbreen on February 03 at 10:50 p.m.
@IanJones
You must have followed it a little though?
IanJones on February 02 at 11:09 a.m.
That is not a personal opinion….He was acting on information given to him….A robbery, by someone who may have been on drugs….the information, and his observations were of a professional opinion, by information provided to him….whether is was a true account given by the girls is not relevant….it is what was relayed to Thompson….there is a difference….therefore not a “personal” opinion……
misjustice on February 03 at 10:54 p.m.
^ Yeah, a balloon, just like that Feb. 02 11:09 a.m. post…bouncing all around…full of hot air…with a big head…and strings, and stuff.
Do they have big balloons like that in N.O.? Maybe big ol’ Mudbugs on strings? Now that would be cool! And it would make a heck of a parade!
I love parades! Don’t you?
IanJones on February 03 at 10:55 p.m.
I don’t know why the mediator on here allows posting like Misjustice’s last one to remain on here….totally off topic,and disrespectful….that is the school yard bullying I speak of….As far as the FED’s getting two convictions I am sure the Zehm family is happy about that…..and I am glad they are happy…..but I am also sure with the appeals coming up, and a possible new trial, it has them on edge….IF Thompson gets a new trial and is found not guilty I am sure they will be devastated, and certain people will be crying foul and cover up….If he is given a new trial and found guilty again….then the Zehm family will be happy….either way…it is what it is and everyone will have to accept the outcome, whatever it might be…I believe in our justice system…..
brianrbreen on February 03 at 10:56 p.m.
@misjustice
I understand what you are saying.
brianrbreen on February 03 at 10:58 p.m.
@Ian
Well said! How about the gangbanger round up the DOJ lead …where do you stand on that?
IanJones on February 03 at 10:59 p.m.
Yes I have followed it in bits and pieces…but not the entire thing…so I do not have enough facts to form an opinion….
brianrbreen on February 03 at 11:02 p.m.
@Ian
Who was misjustice’s thing disrespectful to it was directed to me?
brianrbreen on February 03 at 11:04 p.m.
@Ian
You followed bits and pieces of the gangbanger thing or the Zehm thing…you lost me.
misjustice on February 03 at 11:07 p.m.
I’m hurt! And feeling a little picked on and bullied, Brian. AND I suspect that “you know who” has flagged my post as inappropriate.
And I never want to be inappropriate and while I admit that I may have strayed a bit from the topic of a cop posting on Facebook to voice his support of a two time convicted felon that just happens to have been a fellow cop and now that same cop is saying that he is afraid of a different felon (not the two time convicted cop felon) and the cop that loves the two time convicted cop felon but not the regular felon that he is afeerd of, and the regular felon’s lawyer has the afeerd cop read his words from the post on the Facebook page that is in support of the two time convicted felon cop to try and show that the afeerd cop isn’t afeerd of felons at all. In fact, if they are the right kind of felon he “likes” them.
Right?
And now the jury saw right through that fancy pants lawyer for the regular felon that that cop that loved the two time convicted cop felon was afeerd of, and they voted to convict!
See, Ian, I get it.
brianrbreen on February 03 at 11:10 p.m.
@misjustice
Right!
brianrbreen on February 03 at 11:33 p.m.
@Ian
I’m still looking for answers on the local DOJ…are they good guys/gals or bad guys/gals?
Or do you just not want to say?
IanJones on February 04 at 9:56 a.m.
I did answer you…I told you I don’t not know enough about the subject to form an opinion one way or the other….BUT don’t know that I would say either way that there is a BAD guy in any of this…
But lets get back to what the topic in here should be…it should be about the article…..And it appears that the JURY saw no relevance in the FB postings you guys seem to be so upset about, and seem to think is going to bring the police department down…….Their postings did not appear to affect the officer’s credibility…as it shouldn’t have….It is vial that the defense attorney even tried that tactic….sounds like he tried to use Otto for his clients needs….despicable…I feel for Otto’s family….
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 04 at 11:15 a.m.
Weather the jury saw his FB post as relevant or not is really of no concern to me. I figure the jury got it right.
The fact that the FB post was introduced into court at all is what I find most interesting.
I can now see this happening time and time again with the Thompson supporter’s posts. And I believe that some will no doubt lose, either credibility or even a court case, because of a post they made in supposed support of Thompson.
And most of them have lost all credibility and respect from me.
Be it right or wrong, I tend to give what I get from someone.
I have read hundreds of posts on that support page that had nothing to do with supporting someone, but rather belittling, threatening, and intimidating citizens of Spokane that were not like minded.
brianrbreen on February 04 at 12:06 p.m.
Well…I did form an opinion based on everything I could find. I don’t believe that the public would ever have the entire picture of the Zehm case, had it not been for the DOJ. I do not believe that the DOJ threatened and intimidated Officer Moses or any other officer for that matter. I do not believe that the DOJ violated any Brady standards or statues, and went out of their way to comply knowing full well what the ramifications would be if they didn’t. But that is just my opinion.
I also believe that it is important that Karl Thompson defend himself to best of his and his lawyers ability, and I have no problem with Fredericks writing a letter to the Judge demonstrating concern for the way his testimony was portrayed in a proffer or Thompson’s defense reacting to it in the way they did.
It is pretty obvious you are hoping for a new trial, and that is fine, but what if Judge Van Sickle decides there won’t be a new trial and Thompson will go to prison…will you respect that?
Unlike you I personally do believe there was a bad guy, and my opinion it is backed up by a Jury of Thompson’s peers who heard all the evidence.
Now…as far as the FB postings and all the other postings by cops is concerned and how they relate to this case, go back and look at what I posted. Have I ever said that the FB postings or the “Salute” would “bring the police department down”? Of course they won’t, but what it has done and will continue to do is embarrass the Department and its members, and the City of Spokane. You may disagree with that, but in my opinion is that will be the case.
When you look at agendas, as you infer I have, you have to take a look at how other advocates of LE view things, and set what ever you perceive mine to be aside. Take this for example:
JayNW on February 02 at 9:30 a.m.
@ Brian- I agree with what you said. I’m not advocating the FB post either.
I’m glad the jury reached the right decision; I like the law as long as it is applied equally.
I understand…perhaps more than most, your position, but if you want to question my ethics, my experience, or just me as an individual, try and keep it to me, and not others.
With respect to your position regarding the Thompson case, and FB posts, can you possibly justify this, which ended up not only on the FB page but elsewhere?
“Rick Atkins
The Department of Justice that locked up Karl is the same DOJ that engaged in witness tampering and intimidation to do so. This is the same DOJ that refused to prosecute the black panthers for voter intimidation. The same DOJ that is locking up Border Patrol Agents. The same DOJ that supplied drug cartels with thousands of firearms leading to the murders of over 200 Mexican nationals, two Americans, and dozens of violent crimes here in the U.S. Now you tell me who the criminals are and who needs to be locked up”
Do you agree or disagree with Officer Atkins Post?
Shelala on February 04 at 12:27 p.m.
@Liveinfear
I agree. The fact that PD brass and city leaders failed to address these issues and the saluters and the whole lot of them, tells me and the general public, that nothing has changed. The officer/supporters still believe they are untouchable, just as the games some play while continuing to post and inflame with poorly veiled identities. Smacks of a lack of personal responsibility to put one’s job, career choice, credibility and community standing in jeopardy in defense of a felon who obviously cares little about taking the rest down with him. Not the type of people who should be entrusted to serve and protect IMO. Not anyone who should carry a gun and certainly not anyone who is capable of sound judgement. As a citizen, I feel much less safe having them on the streets than with the all the bad guys roaming around. At least the bad guys aren’t wolves under sheep’s clothing. There is nothing safe about Spokane these days.
brianrbreen on February 04 at 12:59 p.m.
@Shelala
It goes far beyond that, and the credibility of an IA Investigation. Some won’t remember when I took a shot at Detective Ferguson’s (Boardman) investigation; I think she admitted it was a piece of crap to the DOJ and on the witness stand to a certain extent. I took some heat from her sister from California. But I managed to survive. Don’t worry about me I can handle myself.
If I have a complaint about the way the SPD handled a situation with me. I’m sure they would know I’d wouldn’t take it to them, out of fear that whomever the IA person was to answer the phone would blow it off as they have done in the past.
Shelala on February 04 at 2:03 p.m.
@Brian
I have no concerns about you being able to handle yourself! I guess I am just another Spokane citizen who is fed up with the continued in-your-face “I can do anything I want” attitude of the SPD in respect to the public. I have no axe to grind or hidden agenda or particularly bad personal experience with any member of the SPD, as a matter of fact most of my interactions have been good. I have had my car pushed out of a snowbank by one of Spokane’s finest and had one assist when I keeled over because of a heart attack in front of a restaurant., but I have also been shoved out of line at the DMV, listened to a fast food worker be made fun of, and seen minor police abuses that made me cringe. Character is how you act when you think no one is looking. I had long thought that the intimating aggressive behavior displayed by some of SPD was a result of the newness of the position, a little insecurity or just them being a “little full of themselves” and would pass. I have been shown via Thompson/Zehm and other recent incidents that I was wrong. My opinion has dramatically changed.and has become increasingly confirmed. I would never “speak out” on a blog or otherwise under normal circumstances. Otto changed that. SPD has lost a supporter. Tell me Officer, were your FB rants and support for a felon worth it?
brianrbreen on February 04 at 3:45 p.m.
@Shelala
One of the biggest things that “Ian” won’t do is go back and look at all the filings from both sides, and try and take an objective look at them, the mind is made up, and it was long before the DOJ got involved. No good cop with any experience would have said that it was a DOJ sham and an attack on the SPD like “Ian” would like to portray it.
“Ian” won’t acknowledge that Ferguson admitted based on Grand Jury testimony and in court, that the investigation was considerably flawed. Nor that someone tried to manipulate the investigation. But one must realize that “Ian” doesn’t have a whole lot of experience other than protecting what Ian might think is reality.
As for me, and my knowledge of the case, who knows maybe I don’t know crap. But as for my other good friend “Chef Gus” he should have been there and the commission would have learned.
It is up to you “Ian”…try me on… see how I do…question my ethics…question my experience, question whatever you want…including my agenda.
The big thing is, you don’t have the courage to post your real name or IP address like I do, but if that is your way as a public servant…that is the way it is.
Let us see where we go, or would you prefer to back out?
t
brianrbreen on February 04 at 4:12 p.m.
@Ian
Waiting..waiting…waiting…waiting….
Get it together Ian…
IanJones on February 04 at 5:10 p.m.
Brian….sorry I am not on here 24/7 so it may take me awhile to respond…should I choose to….
First of all…It doesn’t matter to me if you think Ian isn’t my name…and not really a concern for me to try and convince you….You seem to be a real conspiracy theorist, and no matter what I said you wouldnt belive me anyway…so why try. Not sure what you are talking about me being a public servant, …..unless being a cook and a college student is considered a public servant, and what do those questions have to do with the article you are posting on?? Another case of not staying on topic ….I have said from the get go that I don’t know a ton about this case….all I know is one whole organization can’t be lumped into one stereotype…..
As far as Rick Atkins post…I dont think of it one way or the other…it is his opinion. Funny how posters in here want to be able to post their opinions….but heaven forbid some officer posts one that they don’t like….How dare he!!
As far as hoping for for a new trial….It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other….If the judge says evidence was presented in a manner it shouldn’t have been and it justifies a new trial…then Thompson deserves that, just like you and I would….If the judge says the verdict stands as it and goes on to sentencing then that is ok too…..What I would like to see is for this whole thing to be over so Otto’s family can start to heal….and I wish the same thing for Thompson’s family….after all neither Otto’s family nor Thompson’s had anything to do with it, and I wish them all well, and hope they can begin to heal….
Now if I haven’t covered everything you posted….sorry they are a little long winded and truthfully I didn’t read your entire posts, as they seem to be the same thing over and over…Oh wait…the DOJ….I don’t have an opinion of them…as I stated before I don’t know enough about them to have an opinion one way or the other…
Oh ya…and me going back to look at all the filings in the case….first of all….I don’t have time or the inclination to do that…hell I wouldnt even know how to go about it…..But lets say I went back and totally agreed with everything about the case you have posted….It still would not change my mind that you can not put one whole police department into one stereotype….I still belive in our police department…are they perfect, No. What agency is? or what private organization is?
What I do find curious is….you refuse to believe that I am just a citizen who happens to believe in our police department so therefore you want people in here to belive I must be a police officer, and i’m not giving my real name…WHY is it that anyone who has jumped on your bandwagon…such as livinginfearof thespd, Shelala or misjustice, you don’t chastise them for not using their real name…?? At least you can google me, and find out I am using my real name…not just a handle….
brianrbreen on February 04 at 5:38 p.m.
“It still would not change my mind that you can not put one whole police department into one stereotype”
Don’t think most people have, and assuredly not me.
So in any way did the DOJ and the Jury screw Thompson or not? Or is it a case of you just don’t have the time to go back and look.
What do you think about the SPD investigation of the case or is that something else you don’t have the time to take a look at? Including Ferguson’s “Investigation”
Quite frankly, I’m sure you will say the name “Ian” is on your birth certificate, just as generallyspeaking/justme09 said “Jerome” was on theirs.
So as you have said your real name is “IanJones”, just like mine is Brian R. Breen, now if you want to try and fool some people perhaps trying to deflect from that would be a good idea. But you and I know you never will be willing to tell people on here who you are…don’t we..or is that another conspiracy theory on my part.
brianrbreen on February 04 at 5:59 p.m.
“Oh ya…and me going back to look at all the filings in the case….first of all….I don’t have time or the inclination to do that…hell I wouldnt even know how to go about it”
It’s pretty easy, all the documents are posted on the SR website those that aren’t you can get through PACER, the video is pretty widely disseminated, and you can read about the analysis from the documents. If you don’t have the time, expertise, or experience as a private citizen to review those perhaps the best thing to do is not make a judgment about anything. On the other hand if you want to take the time…let me know what you think of the original SPD investigation of the case.
brianrbreen on February 04 at 6:34 p.m.
“As far as Rick Atkins post…I dont think of it one way or the other…it is his opinion. Funny how posters in here want to be able to post their opinions….but heaven forbid some officer posts one that they don’t like….How dare he!!”
See I have a little different opinion. I think of it like he is saying the DOJ should be locked up instead of Thompson…am I wrong? I also have this different opinion supported law that public employees don’t have the same freedom of speech rights as the private citizen. But I suppose you wouldn’t support that view.
As long as you feel cops can do and say whatever they want, I guess we will agree to disagree.
IanJones on February 04 at 6:42 p.m.
You are a weird guy… I don’t have to review ALL the filings to know that one cant categorize the entire police department into one stereo type…You say posters on here don’t do that?…Well what do you suppose Shelala meant when she said she feels more safe with criminals on the street, instead of SPD. No she didnt say she feels safer with criminals rather then with Thompson, Atkins or McMurtery out there…she lumped all SPD into one category….What I do know is I wouldnt make a judgement based on anything I read on here as it appears there is a wolf pact mentality…..
I don’t know what your involvement in the Thompson case is or was….how about you direct me to some documentation showing your involvement, and then I might take your posts seriously….the operative word being MIGHT. You make alot of innuendos about things…but when asked to put your information on the table, you refuse to….that is suspect to me….So you can make innuendos that I am not who I am…I don’t care…both you and I know you really don’t KNOW who I am…however, I know who I am…believe me or not, that is your paranoia creeping in…I really don’t feel a need to PROVE anything to you…or anyone else on here for that matter….but isn’t your game to throw things out there to make people believe you know more then you do…Well the usual posters might buy into that…but I am more skeptical….I don’t think you really know anymore then what you have read, be it on the internet, or public records you have got your hands on…Leading me to believe you have some kind of agenda….whether it is self serving, or just pure boredom I don’t know….
So you see Brian R Breen I have no need to “fool” anyone on here, can you say the same? Aren’t you really just trying to get people to believe you know more then you do? Isn’t that what all the vague innuendos are really about? If they are not…please tell me who you THINK I am….that should be interesting…. I dont really care about any poster in here enough to want to make up this big conspiracy to try and “fool” them…that is just silly, and non-conducive, to the topic at hand….
brianrbreen on February 04 at 6:48 p.m.
“WHY is it that anyone who has jumped on your bandwagon…such as livinginfearof thespd, Shelala or misjustice, you don’t chastise them for not using their real name…”
I see so it is MY BANDWAGON…and even though those people don’t use their real names for one reason or another, and you refuse to face me up front out in the open and use your real name, address, phone number, media history and all the other stuff that is out there about me, they are the cowards….right?
Why don’t you just admit it is about me and not them, and you just don’t have the jam it takes?
brianrbreen on February 04 at 6:54 p.m.
“.the operative word being MIGHT. You make alot of innuendos about things…but when asked to put your information on the table, you refuse to
I suspect the operative word would be “MIGHT”.
What do you want out? Name it!
IanJones on February 04 at 7:00 p.m.
Facing you up front Brian…My name is Ian Jones…google it for Christ’s sake….WHY in the world would I give you my address and phone number?? You think we are gonna be best buddies or something? I have NO media history, I have NO big dark secret…dont know what to tell ya…I guess I am just an ordinary boring guy.
What is about you??? I kinda thought this whole thing was about Otto and his family….Ya…don’t think it is a good idea to give someone who with each posts becomes a little more irrational my address or phone number….So Brian…if I don’t respond to your next weird post…forgive me…I have a gathering to attend..my days and nights are not filled with sitting in front of my computer…..but I am not judging you because apparently yours are….
IanJones on February 04 at 7:01 p.m.
Well whoever you THINK I am….would love to know who this person you are so paranoid about is…
brianrbreen on February 04 at 7:06 p.m.
Is it on your birth certificate? Like “Jerome” is on generallyspeaking/justme09’s ?
If you don’t respond to this post does that mean I won?
IanJones on February 04 at 7:09 p.m.
Whoever the person is that you seem to think I am…has you wound up tight…..makes me wonder what they know about you to have you sooo paranoid….ok…really gotta get ready for my night…so don’t go over the edge if I don’t respond tonight….it’s not a big conspiracy theory I am working on….just a night out with some friends…
brianrbreen on February 04 at 7:11 p.m.
Well…I guess I didn’t win…oh well win a few loose a few.
brianrbreen on February 04 at 7:19 p.m.
@mistjustice
Is it “loose” or “lose”? I forget? Someone could misinterpret if it isn’t correct.
misjustice on February 04 at 7:26 p.m.
@ Brian, you bad!
; )
Is this about that leisure suit? I know you said it’s a thingy that happened a while ago; and that leisure suit goes back a ways…
For an old dawg, You sure get ‘em worked up!
misjustice on February 04 at 7:27 p.m.
Brian it’s lose.
Loose means not tight.
Lose means you didn’t win…
misjustice on February 04 at 7:29 p.m.
Although, win a few loose a few could technically be correct in Ian’s case…I’m really not sure though, hard to tell with college guys.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 04 at 7:41 p.m.
@Brian
Okay the cats out of the bag, you have a bandwagon and never invited me for a ride-along? :(
But don’t take me too seriously, that blog handle thing ya know!
brianrbreen on February 04 at 7:41 p.m.
@misjustice
I’m sorry my bad. I do have to admit something to you though, all that stuff you looked up under the name Brian R Breen, all those cases and stuff, my property values, my Facebook page, old high school stuff, my wife and kids names, the polio, all that crap…well it wasn’t really me…my real name is Ian Smith…if you goggle it, it will come up.
brianrbreen on February 04 at 7:44 p.m.
@Live
Ian put you in…you are on board…but Lewis has more seniority.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 04 at 7:47 p.m.
@Brian
That’s okay, I don’t mind a back seat. The view is the same.
brianrbreen on February 04 at 7:54 p.m.
@Live
What people should understand is there are outstanding cops out there but you won’t see them posting crap on here or FB, KXLY, KREM or anywhere else. Why should they have some nutty old retired cop to do it for them.
brianrbreen on February 04 at 7:57 p.m.
@misjustice
Not about the leisure suit. If you go back and study a post awhile back you will figure it out.
liveinfearoftheSPD on February 04 at 8:25 p.m.
@Brian, I really do understand that good officers must exist. It is just hard for me to tell who is who, they all wear the same uniform and speak the same silence.
misjustice on February 04 at 8:42 p.m.
I’m callin’ “shotgun” on the bandwagon; Lewis won’t mind! Besides, I hold an International Drivers’ License!
Brian, I’m goin’ back; not as far back as Undercover but back. May take a while though, “Local Hero” is on and I adore Burt Lancaster; another old dawg!
IanJones on February 05 at 9:59 a.m.
Well hell…guess I am going to have to go back and read generallyspeakings posts say….Maybe I could figure out why Brian thinks I am him….Here is a direct question Brian…see if you will answer it….WHO is generallyspeaking
What I do find curious is that Why once again when asked a direct question Brian you throw out innuendos…you dont answer the question…instead you tell misjustice to go back and read posts and she will figure it out….Just answer the question Brian….Who do you think generallyspeaking is….and what is his supposed beef with you??
Oh, and I am still waiting for you to direct me on some kind of documentation that you were involved in the Otto case?? Waiting….waiting….weird WHY do I feel another innuendo coming on…..
brianrbreen on February 05 at 10:34 a.m.
@Ian
Hey…Ian how you doing. Never said I was involved in the Otto Zehm case, not once. Did read all the filings though and followed the testimony did you, or did you sit through the trial?
As far as generallyspeaking/justme09 is concerned…you figure it out.
Keep taking your best shot though!
IanJones on February 05 at 10:56 a.m.
Just as I suspected…you eluded to the fact you had something to do with the Thompson case….didn’t you say you took a shot at Ferguson’s testimony and took heat for it? Insinuating you were somehow involved in the case….but come to find out…you had nothing to do with the case…you just read about it…Did you sit in on the trial? Hmmm…things are really becoming clear now…..
And again…just as I suspected you wont say who you think generallyspeaking is…..because the fact is you dont know. Didnt you insinuate that you had connections down at the SR…where you could get that information? Oh I am sure you will come up with an excuse as to why you cant say who it is…like you would be breaking an agreement….Ya right……thats it.
I did find a comment you made interesting tho….and very telling about what your possible agenda is….you said that the police departments IA blew off a complaint you made….So this tells me that you are upset about that…. possible motive for your agenda???? Kinda sounds like it….
Oh I read some of generallyspeakings posts…..Ya…not me…he really didn’t have anything interesting in his posts…mostly just name calling….not my style
brianrbreen on February 05 at 11:11 a.m.
@Ian
“didn’t you say you took a shot at Ferguson’s testimony and took heat for it?”
Ya I did take a shot on here awhile back concerning her investigation…said it wasn’t good…and she apparently agreed. After my post there was a response giving me some heat. Didn’t say I had anything to do with the Zehm case.
Never insinuated had connections down at the SR, and could get info…why are you afraid I do?
You might want to read the forum standards and community guidelines down blow on what you agree to if you want to participate.
.”you said that the police departments IA blew off a complaint you made”
Never once said that…I have never made a complaint to the PD.
Keep trying…at some point you might come up with something.
You know Ian, what kind of interests me is your description of my post regarding “Reincarnation” being some sort of “sarcasm”…why on earth would you consider that sarcastic…that kind stumps me. Is it because you don’t believe in reincarnation?
IanJones on February 05 at 11:25 a.m.
Brian says….If I have a complaint about the way the SPD handled a situation with me. I’m sure they would know I’d wouldn’t take it to them, out of fear that whomever the IA person was to answer the phone would blow it off as they have done in the past.
So the last statement…..”as they have done in the past” doesn’t insinuate they have blown you off in the past? Oh and you HAVE insinuated in the past you have connections with the SR, and your own words were that you couldn’t breech your agreement with them…..I am sure If I went back to your statements I could find where you said that…but you post so much it would take awhile…..and I really don’t have the time to do that….but unless you forgot what you post, and I could see how you might…you have an awful lot to say…so I am sure it is hard to keep track…..then you are just be untruthful. Not afraid that you might have an agreement with SR…..and that is twofold….1. Because you don’t. 2. Because if you did you would know my name is IanJones, and I have no ties to any previous poster. Wondering on todays article on the new Chief…there is a poster named “Dave”. He made a postive comment about the police dept…I suppose I am him too!!
You insinuate alot….but once called out on it, you try and back peddle….Yes…things are becoming clearer and clearer with your every post. So answer the question…WHO is generallyspeaking and what is his beef with you??? Crickets crickets…..What is the little “thingy” you refer to?? Crickets crickets….answer the question Brian…
Oh, and no I don’t believe in reincarnation….
IanJones on February 05 at 11:29 a.m.
Your gonna say that your post saying the police have blown off complaints in the past….was referring to other people….Well if you are referring to other people are you basing you’re statement on what “other” people have told you?? Not exactly something you can state as “fact”, more just what “someone” told you…..doesn’t really hold much water…..Just what some dissatisfied person said….started to wonder how much of your opinions are what “someone” told you….not what you know as fact….
misjustice on February 05 at 11:38 a.m.
@ Brian, I see NOW…
That one link that you provided lead to another which lead to another which lead to a Facebook profile which wasn’t locked down. Oh, and that info was very interesting, if you know what I mean? Pictures and some other stuff, just out there for anyone with the time to find and follow the leads…
The Interwebs has a lot of really interesting stuff…
; )
brianrbreen on February 05 at 11:41 a.m.
@Ian
“.”as they have done in the past” doesn’t insinuate they have blown you off in the past”
Doesn’t insinuate that at all…it does however indicate that I have been told it has happened in the past.
I see…you don’t have time to do the gumshoe work that it takes to establish the evidence you say exists and to prove I’m untruthful…glad you are just a “Citizen”.
Here I’ll help you out with the SR issue:
Inappropriate Forum Behavior
You agree not to post messages or other content or send emails with any illegal or harmful content, including but not limited to content that:
· infringes copyrights, trademarks, publicity or any other rights of others;
· is defamatory or libelous;
· is abusive, harassing, or threatening;
· is obscene, vulgar, or profane;
· contains a virus or inhibits another person’s enjoyment of the website;
· violates someone’s privacy;
· impersonates anyone (actual or fictitious), is known to be inaccurate or contains a false attribution;
· is racially, ethnically or religiously offensive;
· is illegal or encourages criminal acts; or
· could expose S-R.COM or The Spokesman-Review to liability.
Notice the “VIOLATES SOME’S PRIVACY”
brianrbreen on February 05 at 11:46 a.m.
@Ian
Oh…I see you knew it referred to other people all along…got it. What I try and do is assess the credibility of the individual providing information, and go from there…you know trying to figure out what reason they might have for not telling the truth…that kinda stuff. Gee if you know about it how do you think it will come out?
greenlibertarian on February 05 at 11:46 a.m.
Pot pi$$ing.
IanJones on February 05 at 11:46 a.m.
Uh oh….Nugget said something nice about the police dept…suppose I am him too….WOW…I sure get around…
Misjustice…do you know how silly you sound when you talk about being, “Undercover”…another reason why most posts in here can’t be taken seriously….If people want to be taken seriously they need to stick to just facts on the topic…everything else is non-condusive…..
And by the way…my facebook isn’t locked down…google me and you can read all ya like….You will find I am not from here…just here as a student temporarily, but dont say that on my FB…uh oh, I better correct that otherwise you might think I am not being truthful……..Im from the mid-west….but really that is not what this topic is all about, so really doesn’t matter…….
brianrbreen on February 05 at 11:53 a.m.
@Ian
Facts are really good stuff, and good to have, when you are trying to make your case.
“possible motive for your agenda???? Kinda sounds like it….”
I think everyone pretty well has an idea of what your agenda is…what do you perceive mine is? Why are you so worried about me if all you say is true?
IanJones on February 05 at 11:54 a.m.
Oh KNEW you would have an excuse….how convenient. And as I thought…you are basing you opinion that IA has blown people off in the past, because that is what someone told you….ya…sounds factual…..No I don’t believe you were referring to other people at all….I knew you would back peddle when called out…..It’s very easy to guess what excuse you will come up with when you might have to answer something….
For me to find the post where you insinuated you had an agreement with SR it would require me to go through ALL of your posts, which is apparently well over 1000….So yes, I don’t have time to do that, as like I said i don’t sit in front of my computer 24/7….But you DID say it, I read the post awhile back with my own eyes….
Hmm…interesting about the SR forum rules….I am not breaking any…can you say the same? Here is an offer for ya….I will be watching Superbowl at Jack and Dans come on down…I will buy ya a beer, and you can show me all this information you have so I can too jump on the bandwagon….Lead me to the light Brian…
IanJones on February 05 at 11:57 a.m.
What am I saying that is not portrayed as truthful…I have said in the past I don’t know everything about the case…That I think it is unfair to lump the whole police department into one catergory…and that I don’t think there is any BAD guy in this whole situation….That I feel for Otto’s family as well as Thompson’s family….My agenda? My agenda is to keep an open mind…..what is yours?
brianrbreen on February 05 at 11:58 a.m.
@Ian
Have one for me will Ya!!!
If you see Goose in there say hello for me!
brianrbreen on February 05 at 12:02 p.m.
@Ian
If you went back and looked, you would know what my agenda is, and you would know how many times I’ve stroked good cops and the department…. my agenda…just get things better.
IanJones on February 05 at 12:02 p.m.
Hope to see ya at Jack and Dans….dying to see all this information you have accumulated….but for some odd reason don’t think you will show up….you seem to be more of the type that is only comfortable behind a computer screen…but like I said….prove me wrong and will buy ya a beer….soda…whatever your poison is..
misjustice on February 05 at 12:03 p.m.
Naw, Ian, it wasn’t your FB page that I looked at; I already “know” about you. Did that Google thingy when you first started posting in this forum; yawn.
Undercover is NOT what you think it is, btw. It’s a thingy between Brian and I; he knows what it means.
brianrbreen on February 05 at 12:04 p.m.
@Ian
I won’t be making the trip to J&D…got something else planned…some other time maybe.
IanJones on February 05 at 12:05 p.m.
Oh come on chase the gray goose with me….no? Didn’t think so….Jack and Dan’s doesn’t do it for ya…name another day…another place to show me your documentation…I have an open mind…would hate to think I am being led down the wrong path….
IanJones on February 05 at 12:06 p.m.
I know Misjustice…just a boring ordinary guy….not paranoid, not a conspiracy theorist…nothing….weird concept huh?
brianrbreen on February 05 at 12:07 p.m.
@Ian
My gosh…what documentation are you looking for?
IanJones on February 05 at 12:39 p.m.
All this documentation you claim to have regarding this big conspiracy on a cover up…All this documentation you claim to have that Thompson was a train wreck waiting to happen…any documentation you have backing up your theories…Ya…didn’t think you would want to show up in person….
You have other plans? Why do I have some strange feeling those plans are to sit in front of your computer posting??? Big plans I see….
IanJones on February 05 at 12:40 p.m.
Ok…If I am gonna get a seat and J and D’s gotta get ready to go…Hope to see ya there Brian….but won’t hold my breath…
brianrbreen on February 05 at 12:46 p.m.
@Ian
I realize your time is limited, but all the filings are posted right here on this SR website. They are pretty lengthy so it might take you a while to review all of them but they are there if you want to.
I’m not sure what your big deal is with showing up at J&D, if you think I would be in the least bit afraid to meet you…you got the wrong guy.
brianrbreen on February 05 at 1:11 p.m.
@Ian
No hurray on Jack and Dan’s at this point anyway the bartender says only three people in there. I left my phone number if you want to get a hold of me. There is a retired Major Crimes Detective that hangs there that goes by Goose he will have it for you. Give me a call…but I am tied up today.
IanJones on February 05 at 9:08 p.m.
Yup tied up today…. feverishly posting away on SR articles I see…..Knew you wouldnt meet up with me at ole J and D’s, and knew you didn’t have “other plans”…….How convenient……much easier to make innuendos behind a computer screen….rather then face some cold hard questions in person…..Oh by the way…J and D’s was packed….didn’t have time for a “Goose” hunt…You might have given a description of what he looked like if ya really wanted me to find him….but somehow don’t think you really wanted me too…. Weird how when your called out on the carpet…..You back peddle, don’t provide any of these so called documents you claim to have…..refuse to answer questions, oh that’s right…you can’t you say because of SR policy on posters….again convenient….losing credibility by the second….and to think…I just wanted to know the truth…the whole truth, which you say you have…but for some reason just refuse to share….Odd….very very Odd….
brianrbreen on February 05 at 9:14 p.m.
@Ian
Got to watch the game at the same time with the grandkids. Sounds like you enjoyed yourself. Pretty hard to miss Goose, everyone knows him there. All you had to do was ask the bartender. Next time you are in there just ask the barkeep.
brianrbreen on February 05 at 9:40 p.m.
@Ian
Another thing you could do Ian if you really want to meet up is going on the Internet to one of those people searches. You have my full name; you know I live in Spokane so if you want to just spend $1.95 you can get my phone number. If you want everything else it ends up about 40-45 bucks. I’ll reimburse you the $1.95 when we meet up; you are on your own for the rest.
Or if you want to just come up to my place, you can find my address on the internet as well without any charge. I’d appreciate if would call first though.
brianrbreen on February 05 at 10:30 p.m.
….didn’t have time for a “Goose” hunt…You might have given a description of what he looked like if ya really wanted me to find him….but somehow don’t think you really wanted me too….
Well I’m glad to see you read the post before you left, I was afraid you wouldn’t see it.
Here is a link to the documents posted on the SR sight. Let me know when you get through these.
http://www.spokesman.com/tags/otto-zehm/documents/
Here is a link to PACER…you can get even more documents on here but you have to pay a little bit. I’m sure someone seeking the truth won’t mind paying a little bit of money.
http://www.pacer.gov/
IanJones on February 06 at 10:13 a.m.
In between classes…took REAL brief reading of some of the documents you attached….Gonna take quite some time to read all of them….but will as time allows….One thing I first noticed tho is the documents I briefed are from The FEDS…ie-Durkin…so they are slanted towards the prosecutions side…BUT that is just at first glance…When I have more time I am actually gonna download them and read them when I have a chance….As far as paying for documents on PACER….I’m a college student trying to pay my way…so not alot of cash on hand for things other then school, and living expenses…
BUT this should be interesting reading…As I get thru more of the documents I am SURE you have attached some from the defendants counsel….Or from the trail….I am SURE you wouldnt post sites from the prosecutions side…or articles from the media…I will give ya the benefit of the doubt on that, as you have stated you just want the TRUTH known…..
misjustice on February 06 at 10:52 a.m.
@ Brian, I understand your “reincarnation” theory.
; )
IanJones on February 06 at 11:40 a.m.
Misjustice…seems like you talk out of both sides of your mouth…I am confused as to where you stand on this subject based on your following post…..I guess it just depends what day of the week it is huh?
misjustice at 6:16 p.m. Nov 7:
To all you nay-sayers…… Here’s another one that didn’t get the chance to ask the offender any questions. Maybe he should have tried to talk him into giving him the gun or “let’s go for a bottle of pop” before he did anything to stop the offense. Yes, maybe he should have not stepped in front of the woman. Yes, maybe Thompson should have just let Zehm do whatever he wanted to do & just let him walk away. Not……….
*************
Detective Michael Morgan, 31, was gunned down saving the life of an innocent. Out celebrating a birthday, Officer Mike was with fellow Officers at a club when, at 0310, while walking a female employee to her vehicle after closing time. A gunman approached, demanding money while grabbing at the woman’s purse. Detective Morgan did not even have a chance to pull his own weapon as he stepped between the innocent and the gunman before the gunman fired a shot.
A round hit the officer in his torso. The shooter fled. Detective Morgan was transported to the hospital a block away by Paterson Police Officers who were in the immediate vicinity searching for a robbery suspect on another call that had gone out moments before. The gunshot wound proved to be fatal and Detective Michael Morgan Jr. was pronounced dead on his 31st birthday.
******************
Yes, I think he should have tried to reason with the man. No clubs, no tasers, just talk him down. He tried to do that….& he was right in doing it. Yes, he was DEAD right.
IanJones on February 06 at 11:44 a.m.
OR this one….
misjustice at 11:00 a.m. Nov 8:
Dear Mr. Burns,
I am writing in non-support of Brian Breen’s complaint about the display of support in federal court in Yakima last week. Police Officers are Police officers 24/7 but they are also citizens that have a federal right to free speech. Their behavior is protected by that law. It is totally okay for those 50 officers to salute any person they choose . Their presence indicates that they feel the officer was right in doing his job because he reacted due to the information he was given at the time. I am a citizen of Spokane and have been for the past 35 years. I support the 50+ officers in their right to support their fellow officer. While some citizens feel these officers have NO capacity for empathy and therefore believe they will most likely do the same as Thompson, I disagree. They have shown empathy for a person they feel has been wrongfully convicted of a felony while performing a job he has performed with honor for the past 17+ years.
What difference does it make to wonder how these officers would feel if one of their innocent children were beaten, tasered, hogtied, and deprived of oxygen only to learn that the POLICE supported this in a gang-like fashion? This has not happened and to wonder what they would do in such a case does not have any bearings on this case. Therefore, I believe they should NOT be reprimanded nor fired just because a former officer thinks they should be.
When we lose the individual right to freedom of speech while on our own free time would be a disservice to ALL. When you limit who can and can not speak freely because of a position they hold for employment, then ALL freedoms have been lost for every citizen of this country.
Sincerely yours,
Concerned Citizen of Spokane That Still Believes In The Constitution Of The United States
P.S. When we let the mob mentality of the citizens cry for us to lynch the officer, we have stepped back in history by 100 plus years.
*************
Yes. I think I will send this letter also.
misjustice on February 06 at 11:48 a.m.
Hah! You’ve been had, Ian. Of course, being new to these threads I couldn’t expect you to know HOW.
Another poster to these threads, who used to post under the names Gramma and then JustMeAgain, changed her screen name to mine. She promptly had her posting privileges revoked but her posts, assuming my screen name, are still archived. And that is why I did NOT want her to mimic my screen name, it is misleading; to say the least.
How to tell the difference? Look at the avatar photo. The REAL Misjustice is a blindfolded lady Justice, with a scale in one had and a sword in the other. I have used the same screen name and avatar photo for years.
Accept NO SUBSITUTES! There is only ONE TRUE Misjustice!
; )
@ Brian, see?
A classic case of “reincarnation”!
misjustice on February 06 at 11:52 a.m.
Don’t feel too bad about being duped, Ian.
Officer Davida Zinkgraff was fooled also. You’re just a college kid, while she’s a “trained” police officer, no could expect you to have the skills necessary to discern fraud.
I won’t hold it against you. Honest, kiddo! It’s all good.
; )
IanJones on February 06 at 12:16 p.m.
Right……sure……i believe ya…just like I am generallyspeaking, Nugget, and Dave all reincarnated into one…..Seriously tho…you should keep better track of your posts……you’ve just been called out….and caught….made to look silly…it’s ok I am sure you can’t keep track of everything you say…As it looks like you say alot…posting on just about EVERYTHING that is on SR….
misjustice on February 06 at 12:22 p.m.
Awww, poor lil’ Ian…and the door to the “open” mind just slammed shut! The deadbolt is secured and the chain bolt is latched!
; )
misjustice on February 06 at 12:27 p.m.
Here ya go, kid…michaelm is one of the thread monitors on the SR…
michaelm on December 22 at 9:38 p.m.
misjustice, I’ve removed the privileges from the poster formerly known as Gramma and sent a note to Ryan Pitts (ryanp@spokesman.com) telling him why. I’m sorry it took as long to get to it as it did.
Without telling anyone how it was done, I can say that avatars are really easy to lift, and there’s nobody here who monitors that sort of thing. If you have any comments/complaints of a general or specific nature, Ryan would be glad to hear them.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/dec/22/house-gop-drops-opposition-payroll-tax-cuts/
IanJones on February 06 at 12:28 p.m.
Still have an open mind on reading the documentation..as long as it is from both sides….an open mind on your posts? Not so much, as you haven’t posted any unbiased reports…, really as I think about it you haven’t really posted anything of substance…. BUT Actually I am starting to believe in reincarnation….starting to think you and Brian are one in the same……See my mind is open to the possibilities…
IanJones on February 06 at 12:31 p.m.
You mean I can complain to michaelm that your posts are often just for the sake of instigating and trying to pick fights, and usuallly off topic…and he will do something about it? Will write that on my tasks for today….thanks for the info…
IanJones on February 06 at 12:36 p.m.
Oh and by the way….you inferred that officer Ian Burkes resigned due to the DOJ investigation….Read the DOJ report…and THAT is false misjustice…..you might want to go back and read their report. They stated that their investigation was not looking at ANY individual police officer…it was a review of Seattle’s Pand P’s, and ONLY their PP….It is people like you Misjustice who puts FALSE information out there, that makes it difficult to discern the truth from biased opinions….
brianrbreen on February 06 at 12:44 p.m.
@Ian
Please at least give me credit for trying to be objective, and I realize your position with respect to the DOJ, I know you think they screwed Thompson. That aside the SR also included CO’s filings (The Defense) one of which was a filing primarily saying that the statement KT gave to Detective Ferguson was not admissible because KT had not signed it under the penalty of perjury…in essence what CO was saying in his proffer was that unless a statement was signed under the penalty of perjury some cop could lie all they wanted. Now for me, as far as that is concerned that was either an attempt on the investigator’s part to try and mitigate what happened and go along with the cover-up as some might think, or it was something that was a product of the culture and no one with any jam to stand up. There was an SOP for statements like those that Thompson gave back in the day: It went like this from memory:
Is the foregoing statement true an correct to the best of your knowledge?
Have I or any other police officer in any way threatened you or promised you anything to provide this statement?
When this statement is reduced to a type written form will you be willing to sign it after corrections as the sworn truth?
When the issue came up regarding Thompson’s statement the SPD realized Shucks. We need to do something so they added a closing (not a good one by the way) It happened after that issue came to light and the SPD came out with the something similar to the old recorded statement format, but it is still not good enough for cops or witnesses
Talk about this and you can find it in the records, when the Department previously cleared KT of putting five rounds into vehicle when the backup had a gun to the suspect’s head, what do you think that was all about?
Let me offer this… if someone wants to use you as a surrogate; don’t fall for it, like some have including cops. What you might find is that the person you are attacking will take you on, whether it is puffed up Super Bowl Toughness or from the standpoint of knowledge,
misjustice on February 06 at 12:45 p.m.
I didn’t say why he resigned, just that he did, kid.
And by all means, send an e-mail to Michael and Ryan outlining your concerns. They are very receptive to being contacted by readers and folks that post to these threads. I have their emails in my contacts folder, and once in a while send them a note.
In fact, Ryan stopped by to a luncheon held about a year ago by a few of us regular contributors and it was very nice to meet him. We were impressed that such a busy guy would take the time to drop in on us!
IanJones on February 06 at 1:09 p.m.
Brian….as I have stated numerous times….I don’t have an opinion on the DOJ….so you saying you know I think they screwed Thompson is incorrect….
As far as firing 5 bullets into a car whle the back up officer held a gun to a suspects head….I haven’t read anything about that, so I don’t know….was either officer charged? Or what is the WHOLE story?
I will read the documents you attached the links to….but it is gonna take awhile….
Misjustice….when I asked several times about had any officer’s been fired because of the DOJ investigation..you piped in with your above post about the officer resigning….therefore inferring he resigned because of the DOJ…..It is THAT type of deceitful inference that takes away any credibility you might have had…..but please don’t mistake that statement as if you had credibility to begin with…
So it’s a NICE day out….time to go play some disc golf to clear my head….then off to work for the night….gotta pay the bills somehow…cant sit in front of a computer all day…
brianrbreen on February 06 at 1:21 p.m.
@misjustice
I’m just me…and I love it when someone takes a shot…it’s not like it hasn’t happened before with real pros. It opens it up for me to get my shots in just like above regarding KT’s statement. Now… Ian might like to leave the impression I am not willing to meet face to face implying I might be afraid. It goes back to my dad who taught me “Always be afraid, but never back down”. Something I tried to teach my kids.
Anyone reading Ian’s post’s, knows full well what Ian was trying to do, the problem Ian has is that Ian found out I won’t back down and if Ian wants a face to face it is there regardless of how it ends up, and if Ian did the home work Ian would have known that.